I have a Bartok apex and am thinking about connecting it to monoblock power amps directly without using a preamp.
Some say I need a preamp only it is a top end.
Currently my system is bartok+ two belcanto ref600+ yg sonja 2.2i. Clearly I need to upgrade amp.
My considerations are:
I use Pass x250.8 with a Vivaldi Apex. Sounds great.
Thank you for the comment!
I wonder if you have any experience with pass preamp added between Vivaldi and power amp?
I think it’ll probably depend on your system, Simon. For what it’s worth, a couple of years back I preferred going direct to Pass XA60.8s to having an XP30 preamp in the system. And that’s no slouch of a preamp.
I read some dacs control the output volume by sacrficing bit depths leading lesser bit perfect sonic reproduction.
Anyone knows about how dCS volume control works?
Although sound quality may well improve by direct connection it should not be assumed that this necessarily will bring equally satisfying musical involvement.
There are many variables involved including the type of music preferred.
Whilst I expect that you will be initially impressed many of us find that once the novelty has worn off it can be somewhat sterile. It all depends on several factors which is why trying it for a couple of weeks before commitment is advised if practical.
After all, adding a pre amp seems a personal choice on sound tone rather than sound quality. If so, I’d better go with direct power amp connection.
My the other system of rossini apex+mbl n51+yg vantage3 became warmer sounding and welcoming since mbl n51 came, which I really appreciate.
This time with bartok, I am confused if going to the same warm tone or somewhat sterile sound.
The dCS implementation doesn’t start reducing dynamic range until well up into its range of attenuation. You can use the Output Voltage setting to stay within that range for your particular amp/speaker combination:
I bought my Chord Pre 2 amplifier primarily for its 'Home Cinema bypass feature". However, I did experiment with a direct connection from the Rossini to the Chord Ultima 3 monoblocs. It was’nt very long before I switched back again. To me the sound signature had a definite relaxed fullness and warmness (as you say), with the inclusion of the preamp.
Thanks for clearing the bit depth issue!
Now, I have decide which poweramp (warm vs. Sterile) !
Chord is famous for its sterile/clear/detailed sound and I presume the direct power amp connection reveals its sonic signature too vividly?
Just to make it clear, points about warmth etc, are still concerned with sound. Mine is about a pre-amp or not affecting the music. Or, to be more precise, the musical message that the composer or artist is conveying.
Back around the turn of the century Jonathan Scull of Stereophile wrote that he had tried direct connection with Elgar. He admired it but when the big musical moments were due to come, they often didn’t. BTW, I don’t think that was necessarily in the main review but in a later follow up.
I have found similar results with every model tried since except with Apex which I have not tried.Simple for me to try and report on in theory. Sadly I am no longer in a position to be able to easily swap the wires 
.
For what is worth I run my Bartok direct into a Benchmark AHB2 (largely on the 2V setting) As long as you are listening between -25dB to 0dB you will be fine. Anything lower than -30dB and you likely have a gain miss match.
Try it and see if you like it first before commitng
Staying within -25 to 0 is a good information.
I will try this by adjusting the output voltage of dCS. Thanks!
Also it is really important to look at how much power you are really using at your normal listening level (governed by the efficiency of your speakers, your room and listening distance) when selecting an amp
A really powerful amp that is driven to full power at a low voltage may result in a gain miss match if your average listening level is say 1/10 of a watt. This means one may need to lower the volume on the dCS - possibly below the -30dB level.
In my case things work out well - I listen mid field with a 100w AHB2 which requires 9V for rated output. With well recorded music I’m able to listen between -10dB and 0dB!
The dCS systems I see in videos at shows and in their listening room tend to be with very powerful amps running speakers that need a lot of power to sound good in large rooms. Which means they likely run the volume at the top end of the range. A good thing
I have the Bartok APEX and my experience is that the preamp does sound slightly different. I tried two preamps back-to-back: D’Agostino Progression and Audio Research Ref 6se. I preferred the Ref 6se to be very slightly better than the Progression which is very slightly better than no preamp. So, I’m selling the preamp and using the proceeds to upgrade to the Rossini APEX.
Though, as discussed on this forum previously, dCS has specific reasons for doing so, dCS itself always (or nearly always,) runs its DACs direct to power amp at shows, and in the dCS factory listening room.
I run Rossini direct. I don’t know where the group is statistically on this matter. My guess is probably 55-65% of users have a preamp, because so many also have turntables.
Maybe someone should start the survey on a separate thread… : )
The dCS position is:
That said:
There are other practical reasons for a pre-amp, such as wanting to drive both a power amp and headphones, and preferring to use only the balanced outputs of the DAC. Am I right in thinking that the Varese has doubled outputs (2 x balanced, 2 x single ended) with this kind of setup in mind? Something like it would be very handy indeed at all levels of dCS kit.
Thanks for the comment. I indeed used a audio research preamp to drive 4 mono becanto mono amps for bi- amping. (Not any more) ^^