Bartok + power amp direct connection

[Simon2]

Thanks, Andrew.
With your comment, I am very confident to directly connect my dCS to power amps!
All the savings from omitting the preamp will buy me a better power amp!

[Simon2]

Hi, with only digital source to play I will not need a pre amp^^

[Simon2]

My case is the same. I sold Audio research preamp to get one more dCS- Rossini apex!

[AndrewS (Andrew)]

@Simon_C

There are other practical reasons for a pre-amp, such as wanting to drive both a power amp and headphones, and preferring to use only the balanced outputs of the DAC.

Several of the folks here (including me) use the balanced and unbalanced outputs to drive power amps and headphone amps without needing to swap cables. I agree that having two balanced outputs would be nice, as would the ability to mute them individually.

Am I right in thinking that the Varese has doubled outputs (2 x balanced, 2 x single ended) with this kind of setup in mind?

Yes, as well as use cases like passive bi-amping.

Something like it would be very handy indeed at all levels of dCS kit.

I agree in principle, although of course there are other aspects like cost and rear panel real estate (LINA).

[keiserrg]

@Simon_C

and preferring to use only the balanced outputs of the DAC

Hi Simon,
I’m slightly confused by this comment. Of course one can use the balanced outputs of the DAC direct to the balanced inputs of a power amp (this is my setup). In fact, some of the higher end power amps have dropped the RCA input entirely.

Can you please clarify why this situation would need a preamp?

(Apologies if I have misunderstood your comment)

[keiserrg]

@AndrewS

Adding a preamp can’t reduce distortion or noise, only add them, and by the same token it can’t increase the fidelity of the signal to the original, only reduce it.

I feel as if, in the back of my mind, I have been waiting for a DAC manufacturer to write precisely these words, as succinctly as you have Andrew, for possibly 20 years. Thank you!

[August (August H)]

Although I’m not Simon, I am in the same situation. Balanced out on dCS is better sounding than single ended (even when converted to single ended again). My preamp can take those balanced signals and drive my power amp which only has single ended inputs.

[AndrewS (Andrew)]

Thanks @keiserrg. Some things in this hobby are controversial inasmuch as they can’t be proven one way or the other. Some others are axiomatic…

[Simon_C]

@keiserrg

I’m slightly confused by this comment. Of course one can use the balanced outputs of the DAC direct to the balanced inputs of a power amp (this is my setup). In fact, some of the higher end power amps have dropped the RCA input entirely.

keiserrg, what I meant was this: I would like to have the benefits of running a power amp directly from the balanced output of the DAC. (And this output is said by dCS to be the preferred one.) However, I also listen using headphones, and the headphone amp maker (Benchmark) recommends a balanced connection to the source component. Therefore I use the Benchmark, from the balanced output of the DAC, as a pre-amp as well as a headphone amp (it was designed with this in mind).

However, if there had been two balanced outputs from the DAC then the ideal would be to use both: one connecting directly to the power amp, and the other to the headphone amp.

[AndrewS (Andrew)]

I had the reverse situation many years ago with my Nagra PL-P and VPAs. Although one assumed they were designed for use together the PL-P was single-ended only and the VPAs were balanced only. I used a hybrid cable - and you could do the same.

[August (August H)]

I’m not sure my cable manufacturer makes that style, I could try adapters.

[AndrewS (Andrew)]

If not your dealer could probably make one up for you. Maybe try with an adapter first and see if you prefer it…

[keiserrg]

I see, thank you Simon.

I also believe a slight flaw in the Rossini and Vivaldi was the absence of two pairs of balanced outputs. A better design would have been 2 pairs of balanced, and 1 pair of RCA, precisely for this situation (and others), which has been corrected with the Varese.

[August (August H)]

Don’t think I would let them near my Sakra’s. Some adapters should provide for an easy test, although I never preferred direct in earlier comparisons.

[imprezap2]

Volume control in dCS products can be very good but are not perfect IMHO.
It very much depends if you can keep it between -30dB and -10dB.

In my system it did not work out when I tried an amp with 31dB gain (offcourse in combination with my speakers), for some recordings I had to choose 0,6V output on my Rossini, dynamics suffered when doing that.

Also tried another amp in my system, class D, gain switchable between 22 and 28 dB.
This worked perfectly in my sytem, volume easy to control between -30dB and -10db (@2V output).

I am happy that I was able to demo these amps before deciding to buy anything, but it taught me that system synergy is important when it comes to the dCS volume control.

[Jvt (John)]

Bartok Apex DAC Streamer connected direct to gryphon Antileon EVO 6V - sounds great but then I haven’t tried a Rossini APEX yet.

[Simon2]

With your advice, I lowerd the bartok’s output from 6V to 2V and I am enjoying the music around -21db volume level!