Hi Guys,
It would be REALLY helpful if anyone having issues with updating did contact me at [email protected] … it would help us immensely to get to know WHY some people have issues updating units and then we can try to accommodate that going forwards.
@Ermos - perhaps on the next update you can drop us a message and we’ll go through the update with you if you always have issues? It would be so helpful to find out why…
Phil
@Phil will do. I do not have issues with other parties’ updates through wifi, so I am puzzeled why it is always happening with Mosaic.
@Ermos - exactly - so it would be good to try to identify why you have an issue each time.
Hi Phil
Yep. I’ve had issues:
Firstly no notification of an update. You know who owns your products if they’ve registered them, why can’t you push an update note by email or via the Mosaic app?
Firstly tried to update, but the Bartok lost connection half way through (still an all too common issue when the iPhone or iPad goes to sleep) so got the ‘trying to reconnect’ message.
Once it reconnected the update didn’t just restart where it left off it had to restarted.
Then managed to keep my iPhone awake and completed the download. It then moved to ‘installing’ but I got a message saying the Bartok had failed to reboot. Why?
It asked me to manually power cycle it. Did that despite the Bartok showing a message implying it was mid update, and it now seems to have completed the update.
Can you tell me what the latest versions are that I should be seeing in the Mosaic app so I can see if it really has done it? It is saying that no new updates are available
This is not the first time we’ve had this exchange but it really is terribly clunky for a high end product. I don’t have the issue of ‘needing to reconnect’ with any of my other digital devices or music software and hardware brands and every time I raise it I’m told it must be a problem with my network. Strange that Mosaic is the only interface that has this kind of issue isn’t it?
Didn’t see any instruction to turn the unit off in the update instructions Pete. Are we supposed to just know this?
Erno, I’m curious about your situation as well. I just upgraded my Vivaldi stack today, it couldn’t have been more smooth. So, I’m really curious why folks are having difficulty.
After upgrading Mosaic on mu iPhone, it found all my dCS components without problems, even before any of their network firmware was updated. So, I’m curious why your updated Mosaic was unable to find your Rossini. 
What networking kit exists between your Android phone and your Rossini? Maybe you could replicate the problem by deleting and reinstalling Mosaic on your Android. A new install of Mosaic not being able to find your Rossini points to some underlying issue.
What? Are you telling me that you didn’t attend the week long residential induction course at your local university when you bought your dCS Unit ? 
Seriously, for example, a 4 box dCS system can be quite a handful in order to learn its operational requirements. Believe me, dCS seems to have spent a lot of effort in simplifying the issue over the years, especially for those of us who recall the earlier models.
As for the switching issue , @Phil says that it is not necessary. However I recall distinct instructions from his predecessors to do this. In fact even though I haven’t spent a lot of time searching back through the archives I found a post from @James saying ( briefly paraphrased) ,that if there are problems switch the unit off and on.
I take the view that having experienced every Mosaic update, at worst it is a kind of prophylactic against failure to install the app update, then switch the dCS unit off, wait a minute or two, reboot then select the update i(n support/versions in the control area of Mosaic).
I followed this procedure and, unlike some, experienced no issues whatsoever. In fact this was the easiest and swiftest firmware update I have had.
Your earlier posting contains great ideas. I am particularly in favour of email notifications and that there should be instructions. I am sent other mailshots from them so update notifications in this way would be really useful rather than just marketing bumph or otherwise needing to be found out serendipitously.
Phil has asked that comments about issues ( and I think your suggestions should be included) should be sent to Support at dCS. This ensures that they will be seen:
→ provided Cable modem/ router ARRIS TG3492LG
Hardwired to switch Cisco WS-C2960L-24TS-LL
→ stacked to switch Cisco WS-C2960L-8TS-LL in the home theater (not related yet to the dCS setup)
Hardwired to 2 wifi extenders
My Rossini Apex DAC is hardwired to the Cisco 24 ports one
My Android Phone connects to the cable modem and/ or wifi extenders
All hardwiring with Cat 6a U/UTP snagless PVC AWG24 CU, except to Rossini with Cat 5e U/UTP snagless PVC AWG24 CU
As said before, my Android Phone is the control point for many other parties’ software and hardware. Never a single issue.
Way out of my field of expertise however my dCS components interaction with my network became considerably more stable once I removed my Cisco 2960 switches.
I had been using these for the past 15 years when someone on the Naim forum (Simon- also a network engineer) started singing their praises.
As almost everyone buys these via eBay, and “theoretically” resellers advertise units as having been flashed back to their original default parameters, one always hoped they would work without problem.
At a certain point I even played with using multiple 2960’s with a fiber link in between.
After many years I removed them (2 years ago) and found disconnects between my dCS units and network effectively stopped (other than when my iPhone/iPad went to sleep). Even then, after the iOS device woke up, connection to the dCS occurred much more quickly.
My setup now consists of fiber>ISP provided ONT> directly into a $49 Cisco “business” metal chassis switch.
Vivaldi connected directly into the switch. The rest of the network is comprised of Eero Max 7 devices connected via ethernet backbone.
Yes, I get that. That said, as I mentioned in a previous post though, how other systems discover their respective components is usually different from how Mosaic discovers dCS components on the network.
One could argue the pros and cons of each, however, having looked closely at it, I can say dCS does a proper industry standard job, they didn’t adopt any funky proprietary method. Other brands often adopt proprietary methods, which appear to work better, but could generally have problems when Apple/Android update their OSes (which happens frequently).
What are those WiFi extenders? (Brand/Model?)
I did previously outline how Mosaic discovers a dCS component on the network, but perhaps it’s worth reiterating here diagrammatically with some additional nuances.
As you can see, there’s a lot of multicast involved, which requires proper forwarding across the network - not unique to dCS; UPnP, Roon, Tidal, Oobuz, etc., all use multicast to varying degrees, and as I mentioned in my previous post;
ARP is usually pretty robust across multiple layer 2 segments, so, it’s not usually a problem, but mDNS which is built on Multicast UDP packets sent out on address 224.0.0.251, can be relatively easily broken across dodgy network elements
I know folks just want it to work regardless, but the fact is, the more “complicated” your home network is between Mosaic and the dCS component, the higher the probability there will be problems.
Somewhere within your home network - likely either the Arris or your WiFi Extenders - is not behaving well w.r.t multicast traffic.
[Edit] Ps: I should add though, from Mosaic when you chose to “Connect by IP” instead of discovery, you’re short-cutting the auto discovery steps I outlined above, and Mosaic learns the IP address of the dCS component from what you key in.
Xfinity Wifi extenders (hexagonally shaped pods), came from Internet Provider (rebranded).
I would have to go through a lot of hassle to get rid of the provider’s infrastructure, and replace it with my own choice. Given that only Mosaic causes problems, and that I can get past them by using the Web interface, I leave it as it is.
My Cisco 2960s are brand new, factory sealed. I have never had a single disconnect between my Rossini and the network while playing music.
Unfortunately, it seems likely thats the root of your Mosaic discovery problems. A quick Google search (Gemini) returned the following;
Xfinity xFi Pods utilize mDNS (multicast DNS) for device discovery and communication within the mesh network, but they don’t directly expose mDNS services to the local network. While the pods leverage mDNS internally for their own operation, they don’t act as an mDNS reflector or forwarder for other devices on the network.
No External Exposure:
While mDNS is used internally, the xFi Pods don’t typically expose mDNS services to other devices on the local network. This means you won’t be able to use the pods to, for example, discover other devices on your network that are using mDNS, like some smart home devices.
No doubt. Tricky situation. But if you do want to though, your best bet would be to;
Thank you very much, Anup! It seems that you indeed have found the culprit. Well done!
I tag @Phil so that he is aware.
I will take your advice, and start building a separate WiFi infrastructure. I am not in a hurry, but will report back when I have it set up.
Hi @nickghough
I see that you’ve dropped some messages over the weekend and I’ll get to those today however I’m afraid I have a personal matter to attend to first so just a quick note before I dive out…
It is not a requirement to power cycle a dCS streamer before updating the unit - if it were then we would most definitely have it included as part of the update process. Most units out in the field will update without issue just by hitting the update option from within Mosaic and is how it works in the main.
However IF we are then contacted by someone that is having a problem updating a streamer then the first thing that I’m generally get someone to do if to power cycle the unit and try the update again … that normally resolves most of those cases.
I hope that clarifies that part of things …
BR
Phil
Back home after an extended absence and performed the update on my Vivaldi APEX stack (the units were powered off during my absence so powered back on right before update).
Easily the most hassle free update process I have experienced during my ownership of dCS boxes. It simply worked - and was rather quick to boot.
