Intermittent lock and clicking with TV Toslink input

I am experiencing the same problem. I came across a few SPDIF “reclocker” for the optical connection between my TV and my Rossini Apex. Will it be better to wait for dCS to come up with a firmware upgrade or just to buy a third-party “reclocker” from iFi, etc., which may not fix the issue? The glitch happens occasionally, but is still annoying.

I am more than happy with the Remedy & is should available sale or return if it doesn’t work. Understanding the cause has softened the blow for me. Of course I would rather it not be a problem but it is & this is a solution. Not everyone wants to run AV through their dCS so for many it will never be a concern.

I very much enjoy the SQ I get by running AV through my Rossini Apex.
Luckily for me, my LG TV hasn’t given me any issues (so far) with the Toslink connection…

My TV is a 10-year-old LG and still great. The Remedy shows power socket options for US, UK, and EU. Unfortunately, in my country, the power socket is similar to EU, but the plugs are slightly different (thinner), and the voltage is 220V rather than 230V. This is the reason I am hesitant to buy directly from Remedy (no regional importer for Remedy in my country).

So do I now that the locking & the lip sync works. :grinning_face:

From the favorable feedbacks on the Remedy reclocker, I ordered and received the Remedy and have been using it for some time. It is connected from the TV via optical and to the Rossini via both BNC 75 ohm and optical cables. I also added a simple AC plug adapter for the local power socket.

Now, miraculously, the “clicks” from TV are completely gone (both in S/PDIF 2 “BNC” and in S/DPIF “Optical”). The Remedy is a real jitter remover for TV audio signals. I am very happy and thanks to the members for recommending this device!

The Remedy continues to work perfectly in my system, with the Samsung TV connected to the Remedy by Toslink.

I am also powering the Remedy with a SoTM linear power supply.

I am interested in whether anyone has compared the Toslink and 75Ω coax/BNC outputs from the Remedy into a dCS.

My thinking is that Toslink from the TV to the Remedy already provides the optical isolation from the TV, while using 75Ω BNC from the Remedy to my Vivaldi Upsampler may give the better connection for the regenerated/reclocked signal — particularly with the Remedy powered from an LPS.

Has anyone compared the two & which did you prefer?

I would also be interested in which 75Ω BNC cables people have tried on this connection & whether you found worthwhile differences between them. I have a Chord Signature 75Ω BNC available to try when I get home.

The issue with ( some) TVs to dCS DACS is that the TV optical output is comparatively poorly executed ( cheaply :wink:) and does not meet the toslink protocol sufficiently enough for the dCS unit to establish or maintain a lock. Not really to do with galvanic isolation.

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I assume that you are referring to their use as clock cables. So, yes .they can make a difference. However its significance may vary from user to user, their overall preferred sound, the genre of music most listened to etc. This means that it is not possible to reliably recommend what may suit you. Some folk will no doubt recommend the most costly as if sound quality and price reflect each other in some kind of linear relationship.

So long as the cable has a characteristic impedance of 75 ohms and has BNC connectors at either end they will work - so that is true for just about every reputable brand.There can be small measurable differences but us difficult to correlate these with subjective impressions of sound quality. I am afraid it is mostly a case of suck it and see.

Thank you Pete. I should have been clearer :frowning: my bad. I wasn’t referring to the clock connections, but the Remedy link to the Upsampler.

I’m using Toslink from the TV into a Remedy reclocker, then considering 75Ω BNC S/PDIF from the Remedy into the Vivaldi Upsampler, rather than Toslink from the Remedy to the Upsampler.

I was therefore interested in whether people have compared Toslink vs 75Ω BNC on that second connection and, if using BNC, whether different 75Ω cables made a worthwhile audible difference.

The TV → Remedy Toslink retains the optical isolation, but my thinking was that BNC might be preferable after the Remedy has regenerated the signal.

I use Remedy only for TV/YouTube/Netflix watching. For BNC and optical sound, I will need a critical A/B test, which I haven’t done yet. From the beginning, for the better cable connection, I use BNC output with Canare cable with a stock adapter with great satisfaction. Additional optical connection is just a backup just in case there is a problem with BNC.

After happily using the Remedy reclocker for the optical output from my TV, I searched the forum’s FAQ for the “lock and click” issue. The answer from dCS was troubling. Simply put, dCS’s argument is that their internal jitter processing requires an accurate input, and the allowance for jitter error is not wide enough for some TV optical output signals.

This troubles me only because practically, the TV is the only optical output device for the DAC, and I assume dCS users utilizing the optical input of dCS products would connect it to TVs. If this is the case, wouldn’t it be a more practical approach for dCS to address this issue with a software update, future hardware upgrade (such as adding HDMI input), or by adding an optional external box for retrofitting existing users? I still do not understand why I had to add a third-party reclocker to fix, not improve, my TV’s integration into my otherwise wonderful music system with dCS.

I don’t disagree. To listen to TV via my dCS rossini & now vivaldi I have bought a Remedy (essential) & added a LPS & a mains cable (optional). The additional socket space & shelf space is of course essential. I am pleased with the result but it wasn’t a problem I anticipated.

The toslink input is just S/Pdif by another means. Its use fates back before TVs even had such things as Toslink outputs.

The dCS DACs are primally designed for the optimum reproduction of music.. If dCS relaxed their execution of the Toslink Input this would negatively impact the primary purpose.

As the issue is not caused by the dCS implementation but by the TV manufactures providing poorly engineered optical outputs, why not address your concerns to them instead?

I would forget any future hardware upgrade by dCS of the Toslink input for TV use as most ( all?) makes have now dropped Toslink as a standard and are now HDMI.

If TV sound is your main objective then perhaps other brands may offer better solutions for you?

The key answer to why dCS won’t “relax” it’s jitter threshold for just the TOSLink interface is in the last line of Andrew’s recent post in the Transport thread;

Thank you Pete for your advice but having recently moved to dCS from Naim I am not planning to move again. The ND555 worked fine with TV & I was using that for TV & Vivaldi for audio. Now I have the Remedy I can retire the ND555 with its 2x PS555 but I would have preferred not to have needed the Remedy. I am more likely to change my TV than the Vivaldi. The community has been helpful in suggesting the Remedy, that was advice that I followed.

Point #1. Complain to TV or dCS: Thinking about how many TVs and dCS units are manufactured, and how many are matched to each other, it is obvious that dCS is the one to accommodate a smooth connection.

Point #2. HDMI over optical input: You are absolutely right. I would love to see future dCS products provide HDMI (HDMI eARC) connection along with legacy optical connection with smooth operation.

Point #3. Switch to another brand for TV watchers: For many DAC box users, TV connection is a natural part of the integration, especially when more content is coming from TV such as YouTube and Netflix, etc. As for me, with a Rossini Apex, Soulution pre, power, and Marten speakers in the study, why would I use a separate audio system? Currently, DAC specialty companies have yet to integrate HDMI input. This is why I ordered a Sim Audio Moon 371 for the living room before other higher-tier products come up with HDMI input. Frankly, if MSB or EMM, among others, had HDMI, I would have gone to them instead of Sim. New audio products have started incorporating HDMI eARC; why not dCS to win the competition? It is a wave of new sound sources, which resembles the source expansion of LP, CD, and streaming music. As a dCS lover, I wish dCS would appeal to a younger, wider potential audience.

TV watching is as important as music listening to me; the difference is that I do not expect high sound quality when watching TV. But it does not mean I am okay with “lock and click.” It is very annoying. In order to enjoy TV/YouTube/Netflix with your system, don’t you think dCS users with fancy amps and speakers are happy to be forced to use a third-party Remedy reclocker?

(@Simon2, I think you’ve just posted on the wrong thread :wink:)

It seems so. I deleted the thread