Elgar+/Purcell : how to read flac files of my music library, easily?

Audio Systems
1

Hello,

I still own an old dCS stack : Elgar+, Purcell (DSD upsampling mode) and Verdi. I still love this combo and I would like to add the possibility to read flac files.

A great part of my CD library (some are very rare and not on streaming platforms) has been ripped to flac for my Astell&Kern DAP.

I have a few other 24/44 or 24/88 flac too.

I just would like to read them through my dCS stack.

I don’t want to add a music server, so my perfect solution should have :

  • internal storage on SSD : so a standalone item (4 or 8 Tb should be sufficient)
  • audio quality on par with dCS
  • Word Clock (all my dCS items are synced)

Budget : max 15 000 euros

There is two possibilities for connection :

  1. through Purcell upsampler
  2. directly to Elgar, using new streamer upsampling capacities if better than Purcell.

For the second solution, the perfect match should be using Dual-AES connection.

For the first solution, I can choose between Purcell input : AES (actually used with Verdi), ST, SPDIF…

Possible solutions I found :

dCS Network Bridge : discontinued and I fear no future upgrades, no screen, only USB storage in my situation

Aurender : Word Clock possibilities with dCS (maybe with a dongle ?), good quality

  • Aurender W20SE : matches all criteria even Dual-AES, but discontinued so potential upgrade problems too
  • Aurender N20 : no Dual AES but only the N50 offers it but for a too steep price, great screen

Other brands :

Eversolo T8 : cheap, no Word Clock

If you have any advices, feedbacks, thanks a lot for all answers !

I a local server solution on RJ45 network is, by far, the best, I can think about it (Roon or other ?). But still need an interface between server and dCS stack.

Regards,

2

Hi Nico,

Welcome to the forum! I started my own dCS journey with a Verdi/Purcell/Elgar/Verona stack 24 years ago. Fantastic system, I’m delighted to hear it’s still bringing you listening pleasure.

Whether a local server attached over an ethernet network is “by far, the best” only you can judge. It is a simple and relatively low cost solution which should give you excellent sound quality.

In that case you would need:

  • A dCS Network Bridge (this uses the same network board as the Lina/Bartók/Rossini/Vivaldi, so although it is no longer in production it still receives network board updates (most recently last November) alongside those others which are.
  • A PC/Mac running Windows, MacOS or Linux. The most minimal solution is an ASUS NUC as described in this thread. If you install DietPi (a Linux variant) on your NUC you could run either MinimServer (UPnP), Roon Server or both. You could store your files locally if you install a large enough SSD, or access a NAS if you want that flexibility.

All this, as well as some of the pros and cons (the above is a potentially good value solution but requires some basic computer skills) is discussed in this recent thread (particularly this post of mine towards the end).

One thing to point out however is that your Purcell only has one single- and your Elgar Plus only one pair of dual-AES inputs so if your Verdi is connected with AES, regardless of whether you plug the NWB into the DAC or the Upsampler (I assume you would prefer the latter to be able to upsample to DSD) you will either not be able to play SACDs or you will need to cable-swap. You have a similar situation with clock cables as each unit only has one Word Clock output, swapping would be required between the Verdi and the NWB. Unless you use the 1394 connection for the Verdi I can’t see a way around these. If you don’t need support for higher resolutions than 24/44.1 or 24/88 from the NWB then you could connect that to the Purcell with RCA which would solve the signal path problem, but not the Word Clock one.

Audio-specific music servers are also an option, generally they offer configuration and usability benefits, and solutions are available at a huge range of price points. However many of these are optimized around USB outputs, which your Purcell and Elgar Plus lack, so watch out for that. If connected via AES (e.g. Aurender) the aforementioned constraints unfortunately still apply.

3

The main item from you is your budget. With €15000 I cannot see the point in bolting on things to a 25 year old DAC. Not only does this present technical issues but many permutations to decide upon.

The simplest thing to do given your budget is to buy a used Bartok. This plus a NAS for file storage and server software should still allow for a nice holiday afterwards ( unless used dCS is exceptionally costly in your territory.)

This will give you streaming of your FLACS and services such as Qobuz or Tidal, subject to subscription. Think of being able to hear the new releases every week without buying and finding that despite the great reviews the album is listen once and file away :wink: .

The NAS does not require a wordclock. The only thing that does is your Verdi so your Verona will still be fine as only 44.1 is required. A separate wordclock is otherwise not needed for Bartok for synchronisation ( nice if you can get one with the requisite dual out but ii isn’t necessary for the services built into Bartok). If you have SACDs I am afraid that as Elgar/Purcell used a IEEE1394 interface this will be out of the question unfortunately. However you have not mentioned the need.

I have no idea why you would need 8TB storage for flacs as that will hold a phenomenal amount. I currently store 1538 albums ( mostly FLAC zero plus hi-res plus some DSD<128). That uses only 21% of 4TB storage.

I started with more or less the same as you have. Believe me that dCS units two generations on are superior in every respect.

The NAS would require some computer skills to set up and you may find it easier to use Innuos or Melco ( used again) as storage only but using dCS Mosaic as control point.

4

Good points Pete. The solution I suggested above would cost about €3,500, but if the budget can stretch all the way to €15,000 then a second-hand Bartók APEX would be within reach and would make much more sense (and the Purcell and Elgar are still absolutely sellable at the right price so some funds can be recovered there). As you say that would be a considerable step up in sound quality, gain state-of-the-art streaming functionality and only lose the ability to play SACDs on the Verdi.

@nico_g, Which version of the Verdi you have? Does the serial number start with VER, VLS or VDE? My comments above about connecting the Verdi with dual-AES only apply to the very early models (VER).

5

Hello Andrew and Pete, my Verdi’s SD start with VD.

So you confirm that Bartok Apex DAC is better than Elgar Plus ?

I have a few SACD (around 15 albums).

For the Word Clock, I can daisy chain all items, no ? Each of them needs to have only one in and one out connector.

If I try to resume your answers, the best way is to upgrade to Bartok (Apex) with a NAS.

For the NAS, is it useful to go to Roon system or Mosaic is sufficient ?

I need to build a perfectly silent NAS (fanless and SSD) for this.

Regards

6

Hello Andrew and Pete, my Verdi’s SD start with VD.

So you confirm that Bartok Apex DAC is better than Elgar Plus ?

I have a few SACD (around 15 albums).

For the Word Clock, I can daisy chain all items, no ? Each of them needs to have only one in and one out connector.

If I try to resume your answers, the best way is to upgrade to Bartok (Apex) with a NAS.

For the NAS, is it useful to go to Roon system or Mosaic is sufficient ?

I need to build a perfectly silent NAS (fanless and SSD) for this.

I have found a used Network Bridge for a fair price : if I go this way, a NAS is better than a direct USB flash drive connected to Bridge ? I only use my own flac files, no streaming services like Qobuz for instance.

Regards

7

Hi Nico,

Yes, a Bartók APEX will be significantly better than an Elgar Plus, both for sound quality and for features. Pete is absolutely correct there.

For the NAS, you don’t have to use a fanless silent NAS - one of the benefits of using a NAS is that it can be put far away from your audio equipment in another room, as long as your property allows for you to run Ethernet cables to both locations (one for the NAS and one for the Bartók). I use a cheap Synology NAS, and it sits in the garage next to the router, far away from any of the audio equipment.

If you do need the NAS to be in the same room because of some practical limitations, then yes, something nice and quiet is a good idea.

Roon and Mosaic should be equal in terms of sound quality, so its just a case of whether you prefer the interface of either app. Mosaic is free and Roon offers a free trial (and it can run on almost any laptop or computer you already have) so you can see which works best for you without purchasing any other hardware - you can decide if a NAS, or another solution, works for you from there.

If you do purchase a Network Bridge, a NAS is definitely better than a USB flash drive connected to the Bridge. The flash drive will only work consistently up to 32GB - larger drives with lots of content will not work. So it sounds like you definitely want a NAS, or another solution, that isn’t a USB drive.

One additional benefit of a NAS (though it does require some more setup) is that the NAS can be set to back up your music collection to backup SSDs inside the NAS via a system called RAID, which protects your music from being lost in the case a drive fails. A very nice redundancy to have in place for precious collections.

Ultimately, I would definitely recommend looking for a Bartók APEX if possible. It will improve the sound of your system for all music, and could potentially replace all units in the system besides the Verdi Transport. As has been mentioned above, I don’t think SACDs will playback through this system via the Verdi, but everything else will work and sound much better.

8

dCS do not change generations by simply putting existing platforms into new cases with a couple of novel features. They change because the existing platform no longer has the ability to incorporate their new ideas via upgrades. these changes have to both measure and sound better. So, simply, yes. I have owned Elgar/Purcell/Verdi/Verona, Paganini 4 box stack, Network Bridge/Vivaldi DAC, Vivaldi Upsampler/DAC/system clock/Rossini Transport. Each change has borne noticeable improvements. However for me the move from Elgar was the greatest.

Current units ( including Network Bridge for this purpose) require dual external clocks if used, i.e. providing 44.1 base and 48 simultaneously. This allows for automatic change which is required when formats change e.g. from redbook (16/44.1) to the most common hi-res format 24/96. You can see that the sampling resolutions are mathematically incompatible. Otherwise you have to do this manually which you will find is a total PITA. Bartok will automatically switch using its internal clocks. I don;t think that you need to consider an external clock at this stage of things except for the only source external to Bartok which needs synchronisation ( Verdi) for which you can use Verona as CD only requires 44.1.

No. dCS units are network attached devices which require NAS for UPnP ( that’s local file) replay. Directly connecting HDD or SDD to the dCS will not be a good experience or even work as seemingly appropriate USB inputs only support thumb drives for when a friend comes round with a few tracks, not for a serious collection. Thumb drives also cannot be fully navigated .

You can use SDD/HDD USB storage with your files by installing a media player such as JRiver or Audirvana on a computer. This is how I ended up using my Elgar etc. The problem is interfacing this as Elgar or Purcell do not have USB inputs but these days computers do not ha e coax outputs. I used to convert USB to coax with a device hough how good such devices are from an audiophile outlook is an open question.

This could allow you to keep what you have and play your SACDs ( until the Verdi mech gives up - it will as OPUs have a finite life).

Buy Roon if you like. There are alternatives like JPlay but Mosaic is fine ( I still use it) and IMO you are overcomplicating thing by thinking of this at this stage. You can investigate alternatives If you feel a need to once you are happy with what you have got.

Why I recommended something like Innuos or Melco ( DELA) is that they are silent. Otherwise I leave it to you to research silent computers ( which can be used as NAS subject to storage size ) or IT NAS units.

Once you have the ability to try streaming services you will find the experience ear opening and wonder why you didn’t do it before. I remember my trial of Qobuz back in 2016. I used the Qobuz PC app on the same computer running the media player. I kept a spreadsheet of everything that I had played with it so I could review it when the trial ran out. Then I realised that even if I didn’t use it all of the time there was no way it was going. Otherwise it is like bing invited to a banquet but only eating the soup course.

9

Sounds like you have the last model, a Verdi Encore.

Absolutely! As good as the Elgar Plus is we have made considerable progress in the intervening 30 years. The Bartók is not only functionally superior but in an entirely different league regarding sound quality.

My suggestion would be to rip them. A Rossini Transport costs about twice your budget and could hardly be justified for 15 discs!

Yes, I believe you can with the Verdi/Puccini/Elgar generation products. It should be clear from the manuals (not all of which I still have). However with the Bartók this would become a non-issue as that would replace both the Puccini and the Elgar (it has a built-in upsampler).

Yes. That would absolutely be my recommendation.

It’s your choice. Roon has lots of benefits over Mosaic which may or may not be important to you, but it is a paid subscription. Mosaic is a little less feature-rich but is included at no additional cost with the product. There are lots of functional differences but no difference in sound quality.

Yes, and that’s entirely doable. For instance the one I assembled for my own system here.

10

Thanks again for all answers.

I think I will try dCS Network Bridge plugged to my Purcell and with an upnp server running on my linux server. I only have to run and configure an upnp server app.

Minimserver is the most recommended for this ? Or is there another upnp servers alternatives that are fully supported by Network Bridge and Mosaic ?

Regards

11

We recommend MinimServer as we have found it to be reliable and stable over time. In theory any UPnP compatible UPnP server should work, and most do. But we will only fix bugs if they are reproducible against MinimServer.

12

Somewhere in this forum there is an FQA on this which I cannot find that the moment but you may be more lucky using search.

To try to paraphrase, the issue lies with the UPnP specification which is not written in a watertight way and allows for a fair amount of interpretation. This can result in commands not being understood or misinterpreted. Although other other NAS server software can work this should be thought of as “work” as you may not get back what you expect. MinimServer is supported by dCS as its characteristics are known by them which may not be the case with others.

I have run my system using other than MinimServer. The result could not differentiate between albums with similar titles or reliably match artwork with the correct music file. Some titles disappeared entirely!

Minim Server + dCS is reliable. BTW Mosaic will reflect whatever server software is used. It is not dedicated to MinimServer. However this combination should not be the cause of any issues.

13

The FAQs have all been moved to the Support section of the website Pete. It’s much easier for us to manage them and keep them up-to-date there. Discourse is a great forum platform but not a great CMS. The one I think you’re referring to is here.

1 Like
14

Is there different versions of Network Bridge ? Or there is only one version ?

As I will buy it used, I would like to be sure to get the latest version (hardware).

Thanks again

15

To the best of my knowledge only one version. @James?

16

You can find software history for dCS products in the support functions of the Only the Music web pages. A single version is shown : V1.02/502.

https://dcsaudio.zendesk.com/hc/en-gb/articles/7633121405852-Software-History-Network-Bridge

I thought it worth mentioning that although Network Bridge itself is a legacy product, the control app ( Mosaic) is a separate item and revisions or this still apply. You will be able to update network board firmware automatically via your device with Mosaic app ( e.g. phone or tablet) and the current Mosaic app from App Store or Google Store.Current versions are Mosaic app v. 1.4.4 and Network Board 529.

17

Thanks for the link. It shows two versions : V1.00 and V1.02 (2019) : is it only software upgrade ? No hardware difference between V1.00 and v1.02 ?

18

Oops, I get worse :frowning:. There are four versions of two basic iterations shown but the latest software is v.1.02. This is software not hardware. In I am not exactly sure what the second number relates to . I would also guess that the reality is that finding a used Network Bridge in the first place is the main thing and until told otherwise it may refer to the build or streaming board version.

19

Hello, I’m planning to buy the Network Bridge tomorrow.

I have a few more questions : if I want to Word Clock it, it needs 2 clocks : one at 44.1kHz and the other at 48 kHz. Is it possible to find a dCS Word Clock that offers two different outputs at a time ? The Verona has to be switched between 44 or 48 kHz. So you need two Verona if you want a full automated Word Clock.

Maybe professionnal products like 992 or 995 can output two different frequencies (I found the 992 manual but not the 955 : if someone has the 995 manual or knows the differences, it would be great) ?

Yhe Lina clock seems to have two different outputs for 44 and 48 kHz at the same time.

Is there another model with those two outputs ?

Thanks again for helps.

Regards

20

Hi Nico,

While the NWB and the first generation units (Purcell/Elgar) are compatible in their use of dual-AES their clocking architectures are fundamentally different and only easily reconcilable if you use Audio Sync when using the NWB. Other than that combining them essentially creates a bit of a Frankenstein and gets more complicated the more I think about it.

However, rather than investing even more than the cost of the NWB in retrofitting file replay capability to a first generation dCS stack, I would again urge you to consider whether a second-hand Bartók wouldn’t be a much more sensible option? It is designed to do what you want, is a one-box solution that replaces two of your current units and will give you a really substantial lift in sound quality. The principal (only) downside is that you wouldn’t be able to play SACDs, but again, those could be ripped and replayed from files.