My lovely Bartók is part of my system upgrade process. The other part of the upgrade will be new amplification of some description.
Having read the numerous posts on Pre, or not to Pre, which is mostly a personal choice using one’s ears.
What about, dare I say it, “Integrated Amplifiers”? I’m talking, CH Precision, Vitus, Dan D’Agostino, etc…
I’m not sure what brands can do it, but I’ve heard you can have the best of both worlds, with a Pre bypass?
I’d be very interested to hear from those who use, and are very happy with an Integrated Amp with their dCS product. And, those that feel that ‘Integrated’ amplification would be detrimental.
Integrated amps have come long way from the entry level designs of my youth. You have mentioned some really high end brands there and having heard some of them with dCS and/or other top end brands they are most certainly worth considering.
Of course you still have the usual requirements of compatibility and personal preference to think about but that applies for everything.
However if you are going to bypass the preamp section then this may tip the balance back to a stereo power amp or even monoblocks.
I agree with @PAR: why choosing an integrated if you don’t use its preamp section?
At this level, whatever the brand, the less the better: if no need of a preamp for other sources selection, best is to directly use either a stereo amp or two monoblock amplifiers with your Bartòk.
BTW, for what I know as an owner of this brand, on most of McIntosh pres and integrated amps, there’s a way to set an analog input so that the pre is automatically bypassed: it is called the “PASSTHRU mode”.
One single set of analog inputs can be set the “PASSTHRU mode” at a time. All analog inputs but the phono ones can be configured as PASSTHRU.
When in PASSTHRU, pre commands (volume, input selection, …) are totally inactive.
The “PASSTHRU mode” first intent is to be connected and to become the slave of an Home Theater AV receiver.
Caveat: for the McIntosh Pre to shift to “PASSTHRU mode”, the use of a trigger connected to a dedicated input (12v stereo jack 3,5mm) is mandatory. Unfortunately, the Bartok has no trigger…
Otherwise there’s still the possibility to remove the jumpers connecting the pre out to the amp in, and to directly connect the source to the amp in, but again, I don’t see the point here…
I use the vitus sia030 integrated amp and find it to be a superb combo.
The pure class A upto 30 watts is all i ever use.
It was better than the naim 500dr i had before, especially in the lower end, plus wider, taller and deeper.
But i need a pre with my many different sources, and i wanted one that i couldn’t hear.
It also has a pre bypass, but i have never used it.
If you need (now or maybe in the future) analog inputs then you will need an external pre (such as that contained in a traditional integrated amp) at some point. If you don’t, then the Bartók may well contain all the preamp you need.
One thing to bear in mind. Many prefer the sound of their dCS DACs at 6V out. Some external preamps like this, others are only happy with 2V. Again, let your ears decide.
The 6 volts thing is or can be very significant.
Luckily with the vitus i use, you can set each input differently. One setting is sensitivity. This can be set upto 8 volts input.
If you don’t set it to 8 volts and then use the 6 volts out, you can certainly hear the effects over powering the input does.
The other inputs i have set to 2 volts. These best suit the phono stage, and my tape decks.
Thanks Andrew.
I had a Bartók back in 2020 with the same Naim Pre and power amp. But I’ve a sneaky feeling that the output was set to 6V.
At present the new Bartók Apex is set to 2V, as recommended by my dealership.
The sia030 is certainly a stunning integrated amp. But if you only have the bartok then i would certainly just get an amp.
I would certainly get an amp that is fully balanced, can take 6 volts. Then just listen to what you like best.
The difference between 2V and 6V is 9.54dB so for a fair comparison you need to compensate with attenuation in the DAC. 9.5dB is as near as you can get given the 0.5dB increments but that is probably close enough to level the playing field.
@Merlot52 I love the simplicity of a good integrated. Less cables and you can get very high SQ.
If you will be looking at Vitus, try and audition a Thrax Ares if you can. Haven’t looked back to my separates since I got it.
I know that I’m not alone on this forum in using an Ypsilon Phaethon integrated amp and it is nothing short of extraordinary. As simple as can be - single ended, Class A/B, hybrid valve design and 110W into 8 Ohms so capable of driving most speakers. No AV bypass (or pre-pass, though I agree - why would you want it?) and no option to add an integral DAC/phono board. Just simple amplification done well. It doesn’t even come with a manual or power cord. The copper version retails around £17k, the SE (silver windings in the transformer attenuators and inter-stage transformers and pure silver wiring in the signal path and power supplies plus other subtle ‘fettling’) is about twice that. I had an extended home demo with it against the CH Precision I1 - I really wanted to prefer the more expensive CH (ex-demo, fully loaded with phono/streamer + DAC boards at a great price) - the ultimate 1-box solution, but all the ‘sit-up & wow’ moments came when the Ypsilon was plugged in and, ultimately, it’s all about the music. Haven’t heard Vitus (but I know @Dunc is very happy with his SIA030). I’m on the cusp of trading my copper version for an SE through Kevin at Fi Audio, and I think that he’s planning to keep mine as a demo unit if you want to try one. Good luck!
The Phaeton is really special, I had it for a while. Some things it did extremely well, but for me it wasn’t allround enough to stay in the end. I personally missed some outright attack on drum/snares. Will probably depend on the pairing with speakers and preferences though. One of the best on build quality I must say, a joy to touch and use.
Whether you require the ability to connect other sources you should still try a pre or integrated amp in your set-up. I seldom use my turntable so in theory I could run my Vivaldi direct into my Momentum MxV’s. I have tried that the SQ moves further away from what I am looking for. The Momentum HD will stay in my set-up no matter how dCS runs it in their shop.
I do have a Pre…a Naim 282 which has a separate Supernait Power supply.
Looking to upgrade the amp in the future, but waiting for the Bartók to burn in before I do a comparison, with and without a Pre.
I will be very surprised if 5he naim pre amp goes back in once you try.
As everyone that i know that has tried it with naim pre amp’s have preferred it without.
Almost all 552dr owners, don’t think any had the 282dr.
Hi David, few years ago i use pre+power amps but since i went to integrated i see a lot of good sense in that. Less cables, less space and they play as good as some of the best separated. I use the darTZeel 8550 MK2 and i love it.
Trouble is Dunc, although very good, my 282 and 300 aren’t a patch on the 500 series. This is what I was trying to say in my previous posts on this subject. The comparison of a 500 against a 300, I’m assuming, will give different SQ results.
Yes, using just the 300 will work, but the result will sound inferior to that of a CH, Vitus, Dan D’Agostino etc…no?
