Vivaldi for sale

Thought someone might be interested in this advert placed today.



I had seen this earlier when it was offered as a stack for GBP 38.000.The clock was bought by a member here and now the two remaining units are for sale separately.

I’m considering the upsampler, and compared to current pricing (GBP 27.500) it seems reasonable on first glance, but looking back at the original 2017 price for the upsampler plus it was GBP 15999 which makes the current price a lot harder to swallow. Price increases have been huge these last 2-3 years especially. Nothing has changed otherwise to the hardware. I would say looking at recent used prices that this is definitely on the high side, and 11-12k would be more reasonable? Dealer strikes me as a decent chap says price is fixed though.
I am debating what to do. I am lucky to be able to consider these products secondhand, but by no means wealthy. It comes down to having the budget for one of either Vivaldi upsampler or transport this year at secondhand prices. How much better will they be compared to the Network Bridge and Paganini Transport I have? I might wait until other opportunities come by later on.

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The upsampler will bring much more over the network bridge.
It will obviously offer you the same streaming but you will now be able to upsampler it to a higher level.
Plus you will also be able to upsample your cd’s.
But another very useful thing is any updates to the dac can now be done through the upsampler over ethernet.
Maybe other things as well will inpove over the network bridge but i think i might have covered the main ones?

pity, I would need a black one. In the meantime my dCS 974 has to do the job.

There are alternatives to dCS transports.
e.g. I use Accuphase transport connected to Accuphase Room Correction (DG-68) and then going to dCS.

Martin the problem with most non- dCS transports is that they do not have wordclock inputs so cannot be properly synchronised with dCS units. Those which can also play SACD do not have dCS proprietary enciding so the DSD output is not acceptable by dCS processors.

If i wanted a transport and i don’t, but if i did it would be a dCS one, as i would want all the benefits it brings when you couple them all together like the clock, duel aes, dsd, etc.

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Mutec MC-3+ (USB) to sync non wordclock units to the dCS part of the system.
For room correction you need to downsample SACD to 16/44.1 with dCS, with Accuphase the DG-68 downsamples to 176.4 (!).
And IMHO Accuphase transports are the best on the market and definitely also less pricey than dCS.
P.S. I have a pro audio background and am well aware about syncing in the digital domain.
e.g. what is required to record audio from TV and simultanously from an FM receiver with digital output to a single digital multitrack recorder?

you may have overlooked, that to me electronic room correction is an absolute must, and then things are not that simple any more, specifically with SACD.

I suppose I didn’t try my 972 in between the network bridge and the Vivaldi Dac yet, interesting idea. It does DSD upsampling to SDIF-2.

It’s actually very reasonable when you consider just on the basis of cumulative cash inflation alone £15,999 in 2017 is worth £22,000 in 2023! Given the huge cost increases within the manufacturing supply-chain in the last couple of years, I’d say dCS has done a pretty good job keeping prices to the levels they have.

Go for it, the more you wait, the worse it’ll get. :grin:

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You make it sound reasonable :slightly_smiling_face: which I guess is part of the structured madness we partake in :wink:. At least I guess this is why one long time forum is called the audio asylum :smile:.

A site I found calculates that 2017 amount would be worth around £20K now. That is about a 25% increase or 4% per year average inflation. Seems reasonable. When you come to think of the fact that the price increase is actually £7.5K more which is almost double that inflation increase I beg to differ whether that is still in the realms of reason. But there is a lengthy thread on those price increases and I won’t go into that here.

Bottom line: I am still thinking about it, but that kind of money also buys some really nice amps. Or maybe a bathroom renovation. We’ll see.

In case it makes a difference for anyone looking, the Lotus Hifi chap is nice to deal with. Had a lovely session with him (Tidal, Rockports…YUM) a few months back. I’d happily buy from them.

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It isn’t a good idea to judge an individual item’s price increase against inflation (RPI or CPI) unless it is a commonly purchased item. Inflation is an average drawn across a range of such items. Those items form what is called " a basket of goods" and that basket may include things like housing costs or university tuition fees but not high end audio equipment AFAIK. Where individual increases of raw materials occur ( as they have here to a significant degree) they are not directly accounted for and high inflation in one sector is ameliorated by low inflation elsewhere when the final annual figure is calculated.

However my main point is. once again, to point out that purchasing Vivaldi is an expensive option as it is a system and normally requires three units ( DAC, Upsampler and system clock) to work as designed.

Your own personal take on things is essential but unless I could commit to all of the missing units ( now or within a reasonable time) I might hesitate. My own opinion is that given an existing Network Bridge and Vivaldi the biggest bang for the buck would be to upgrade Vivaldi to Vivaldi Apex if it has not been done already.

Yes indeed, it is all academic the discussion on inflation and whatnot, it boils down to the individual choice which in the end is an individual first world problem of luxury. Going to Apex now that you mention it is another very viable and even cheaper current option that had crossed my mind. Thomas Mayer monos were another… :thinking:

And I do have the Paganini transport and Network bridge so not without decent sources.

That is going to depend on your speakers. Mayer’s amps are ( always or mostly ?) single ended with outputs as low as 2W/channel. So many speakers are not runners here.

That was very funny, I laughed to death when I red that :joy:

For your info, in the mean time, Pass Labs and Moon almost did not increased their prices…No one can say they build their products mainly with wood or plastic…

Now if someone says that dCS had to increase their prices that way in order to survive (less sales…) then I can understand. If someone says that they increased their prices because they want a better margin to do better profits, I can understand, it is the purpose of building a company…

But suggesting that they increased the minimum they had to, in order to keep the prices as low as possible, that was definitely very funny…

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Yeah, I think BoE’s inflation rate calculator shows the slight more conservative figure you found. I used the World Bank’s inflation calculator (for the UK) which is where that £22k came from :grin:

Agreed, it’s not a small sum of money by any measure. Still, you know it’s going to keep tugging at the back of your mind that your stack isn’t quite complete :rofl:

And it will sound great (!).
NWB: output single AES max 96k; output dual AES max 192k (2x96k).
972: input and sync source AES, output DSD, format SDIF;
connect 3 coax to Vivaldi (ch1, ch2 and clk); the 972 is the clk master for the Vivaldi.
Vivaldi DAC: input SDIF-(x). If SDIF-3 is shown, you need to manually set the clk input (for the three adjacent coax inputs, set clk to W3).

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Thanks Martin, will give it a try.

Indeed Martin the 972 in between upsampling the network bridge output to DSD SDIF-2 is another quite large leap forward making the system sound so much more consistent. That does give me the idea that the upsampler plus would be better still with DXD and 2xDSD.