I too have heard the Devore speakers at hifi lounge, and at a few shows now. At Paul’s, I have heard many different ones, including the reference ones he has in the main room with the Varese. I can’t say I like what they do, and I certainly feel that they simply don’t suit the Varese or simply just aren’t good enough to show what it can do. I certainly wouldn’t be pairing them up together.
But I have never heard the Devore speakers really sound great, to me all they can do well is voices, and fall short everywhere else, they certainly aren’t for me.
I have heard the Varese as few times now, yes it’s wonderful and keeps the dCS sound i like. but for my old ears the vivaldi is more than enough. I certainly don’t think i could pick out which one was playing if I was blindfolded, as they are both extremely good.
I am sure some probably can, but I haven’t felt each time I have heard the Varese, that my Vivaldi was now broken sounding or miles away. Its great to see dCS once again pushing the boundaries forward, and obviously the Varese is the best dac, dCS make, the differences are there, just not as big as I can hear, obviously if I had the money I would buy it. But it didn’t give me the same feeling as I got when I first heard a dCS dac, or when I tried the vivaldi apex, against the rossini apex. But as said I am almost 57, worked all in life in construction, so probably my hearing isn’t up to picking apart the difference between these 2 top dacs.
Your experience is similar to mine (but better expressed) though I have only heard Varèse once and am even older. It has left me without any anxiety that I am missing out at least in ways that are significant to me. Of course others may feel differently.
Well i didn’t like the Devore speakers, and i certainly can’t see dCS swapping over to them compared to the wilson’s they use in the demo room.
The Devore speakers to me just sound a bit boring, lifeless, and less dynamic, even when being feed from spectacular products. I just couldn’t see what the fuss was about, but paul at hifi lounge loves them. Maybe nice margins on the, or hear just likes them? But as said not for me.
Just mentioning that at the Varèse demos that dCS organized for the launch, the two systems were played side by side. Despite how good the Vivaldi is, hearing the difference from the Varèse was easy for everyone in the room. Both were great, but incredibly, it was not close.
I think Paul’s first got into them at the bottom of their range, paired with a Western Electric Valve Integrated, and a Bartok or a Rose streamer/DAC. I did think that combo sounded good - but I always said I could see it as a second system, because it did things that my main system didn’t, and brought a warm retro glow up to the whole sound. Not accurate, but very “nice”
So I was surprised when the much vaunted reference system at HFL was just a (much) bigger version of that. And like you, I’ve heard it many times - it’s buzzes like crazy - and it just sounds very loose and lacking in detail. Yes - it’s musical and again lovely and warm sounding - but so is an LK1/LK2 with a set of Isobariks…and it kind of reminds me of that sound. Like a comfortable pair of slippers.
If I was building a reference system to showcase the Varese from the HFL and Absolute Sounds portfolios, I’d use the D’Agostino Momentum amps already on site (perhaps I’d even twist Ricardo’s arm for a subsidised set of Relentless 800 - probably wouldn’t do the Pre Amp as it’s all about the Varese - and a pair of Wilson Alexia V. Would cost half what the current system costs, even with the big DAGs.
But hey, I’m not a highly successful UK High End retailer, so what do I know
Not sure if that’s necessarily the case, although here specifically Wilson would definitely be better suited to the resolution of Varese. But many more speakers exist that could do that. I would love to hear a dCS pairing with Kroma, hORNS, Kawero, Acapella or many other highend speakers.
It can also be a drawback to always have a certain pairing as some folks see the often paired combination of dCS and Wilson as something not up their alley and then discount dCS just because they’re not Wilson fans. dCS is often described as analytical vs musical. Not sure if I agree that this is some mutually exclusive dichotomy.
Myself I use WvL fieldcoil speakers - TAS’ October issue has a highly favourable review of the Ultima - a high specced version of the Son I have. Not sure if there are dealers that have both WvL and dCS but they should definitely demonstrate both together. @AndrewS need to get Marcus from Perfect Sense onboard for dCS
I think that this thread is moving away from its subject; Varese v. Vivaldi, to a discussion about the optimum speakers to pair with dCS. I have to say that this is such a subjective matter with many variables that there is no answer. However for those that think there might be perhaps a new subject in Audio Systems should be created?
I partially agree here - yes, it’s subjective - but there are so few dealers that have a Varèse on permanent demo, what THEY use to make it sound best is relevant.
I’m not sure HiFi lounge actually have a Vivaldi on permanent demo anymore (which is interesting in itself) but if they did then it was always in the “Wilson Room” rather than in the Davore Fidelity room where the Varése currently resides. These things are movable of course.
So I suppose what I’m saying is I don’t actually currently hold a view of the Varése is streets ahead of a Vivaldi of not, because I’ve only ever heard them in systems of such diametrically opposed design philosophies, that I can’t say.
I have heard Varese one time, on a system that I didn’t know well. I would certainly say that the clarity is such that I would be able to pick it out blind from Vivaldi. But I do agree that it deserves to be paired with the best a dealer has to offer. Devore O/ref is not a cheap speaker system but I can’t comment as I haven’t heard it.
Matt thinking about it all and the last time I heard the Varese, vivaldi and bartock was at hifi lounge using Devore speakers and the valve amps. This is a very different system to last time, and a very different system to what is at dCS, demo room.
It could just be that I just don’t like the speakers and that in turn stopped me from fully hearing things how they should be and how I expected it should be, or the system used couldn’t show me the difference between them as clearly.
As maybe my hearing isn’t as bad as i think it is and feeling like I couldn’t hear the difference between them, could be more the speakers, as its been pointed our to me that I certainly enjoyed the Varese at the factory, and we certainly did. So it’s probably more down to speaker/amp being used.
But whatever, as I said on other post’s, there are differences, how much difference will depend on many factors. But please go listen to one if you can and hopefully on a system to full do it justice.
Haha, I can assure you that sort of decision has nothing to do with me. P.L. Audio is our distributor here and responsible for selecting and contracting retailers.
This has really got me thinking now, I must really do some work, but.
Thinking even more about it, then this is really a bit like the naim 552dr days. In that, that certainly held back the dCS dac in the rossini and vivaldi. I could never get my rossini to sound as good as Paul’s at hifi lounge at the time.
So I wounder if the same is now happening with the system he is using? It would certainly answer my questions if it is, as something isn’t quite right. Or as said it could just be me and the fact I just don’t like the Devore speakers ? But atleast it looks like others feel the same about them, so maybe I am on the right track.
I heard the Varese in Belgium although Vivaldi wasn’t in there but it was quite apparent to me what it did in that system. If you can, try and hear it in some other system one day.
Interestingly I met one of the partners at Absolute Sounds a few weeks back, he came to my home. They are the distributor for both Wilson and DeVore - plus dCS as well of course - so win win for them on speaker choices.
He was super clear with me that he finds the choice of DeVore as a reference speaker for the Varése an interesting choice, and how while he really likes them for casual listening, there are much more accurate and revealing speakers in the Wilson range (that actually cost less than the DeVore reference) that are much more able to showcase what it can do.
The Amplifiers we didn’t discuss, but again, if you’re looking for accuracy then tube amps aren’t the first thing you think of….so I suspect he’d also be backing the big DAGs or something from DartZeel (if we have to stick to the AS portfolio!) or CH Precision.
I do think what Paul has built is the absolute ultimate second system. One for an easy Sunday, one for smooth Soul and Jazz, one for relaxing with a whisky to. But a reference system? …one capable of providing musical enjoyment whilst also being a microscope into the recording and the other components in the system? ….nah….
Matt I think you have hit the nail on the head with, your second system quote.
I can see the appeal of the Devore speakers on certain systems/music. But as you say reff system, error No.
I don’t think it’s good enough to show case the Varese and probably struggle to really show what any dCS dac can do.
It might be smooth and easy listening/musical if you want. But the Varese was musical, dynamic, clarity, etc at the factory and that is what I would want with the Varese, and with a dCS dac, as if not go get a valve dac to match?
So guys probably best to ignore my blindfolded statement, go listen at the factory and place your order whilst you are there. As it will showcase it very nicely indeed as my memory, seems to be fine, and hopefully my hearing also.
I would also point out, having swapped the speakers in the demo room at the factory a few times, it is several hours of pretty sweaty work for two people, so not something you simply do on a whim. Re-spect to all the high end speaker retailers for whom this is a big part of life!
