Firstly I am not sufficiently technically literate to understand some of the technical ins and outs discussed here. However when the kit costs as much as dCS kit costs I think it is not unreasonable to just expect it to work. I do appreciate that the more sophisticated the equipment the more finikity the set up can be. However once professionally installed (as it was) I expect it to work smoothly. And as I’ve said before I never had this problem with any of my previous kit from Naim or Linn.
I have however done all of things suggested on this thread (and others) in an attempt to correct this problem including the things you refer to and it still persists.
One of the suggestions from a user was to create a separate WiFi network and dedicate a device to use as the controller using Mosaic. So I did that. I have an iPad I only use with Mosaic set to not go to sleep connected to a WiFi network to which nothing else is connected. That hasn’t unfortunately solved the issue.
Creating a separate wifi network for the controller is a valid step (it must of course be connected to the same subnet so it can “see” the renderer) however it only helps avoid a couple of potential problem causes and is far from a panacea. It is most helpful if the network equipment allows the user to tie that wifi network to one access point in a multi-access point or MESH network, thereby preventing the controller from roaming onto an AP with weaker signal. I think that is the context in which I originally recommended it.
Experienced the very same issue with my non-Apex Rossini just a few days ago also, not for the first time - but it doesn’t happen on a daily basis either.
What happened is this: I had Roon play a 96kHz FLAC album. Display was showing the tracks progress - but after the last track finished the display did NOT fall back to its idle state just showing “NETWORK”; it seemed to be still stuck on the last track. I now asked Roon to play a 44.1kHz FLAC album but it now appeared to be performed by a band of chipmunks… way too fast. And the display was still stuck on the last track of the previous album. Buttons on the front and on the “plank” remote were not operational. but I could get Roon to stop playing the track.
Remedy: reboot Rossini. As usual.
My gut feeling is that the streaming board is not very fond of sample rate changes. Especially combined with input changes (network to optical to AES to S/PDIF etc.)
The big trouble is that it is not reproducible. Having worked in the IT industry for years, I know how hard it is for an R&D department to attack such an issue.
I’ve definitely had the Chipmunks playing at my house. (Would rather Daft Punk, with apologies to James Murphy )
It hasn’t happened for a couple of years, though, and I’m nigh on certain it was down to a problem with a mesh (eero) network, rather than anything to do with external clocking. Interestingly, I still have the same eero kit, but I’ve configured the dCS and Roon gear a whole lot more sensibly. Modem > switch then out to eero, Rossini, Roon etc.
Do you have a mesh network near your Chipmunk system, @Paul_Bemelmans ?
Exactly Same experience here since day 1 for 3 years. Most listening sessions would not pass by without a hard reset or two. I think it happens when playing playlist at different rates on streaming. Even after apex upgrade the same issue persist though the random disconnection/reconnection we experienced previously we dont encounter it anymore.
Using mconnect for about 3 months now and never had the glitch once. Would still prefer mosaic for its ui but its currently having issue streaming on our region only w/c we dont have any ideas stull why its happening.
With the current 1.43 (151) version of Mosaic Control, I rarely see a “Lost Connection…”.
Looking back at the thread where you first outlined your problem…
If your connections are still the same, one possible change I might suggest is to connect your Bartok to a spare port on the Wireless Access Point that your iPad connects to, instead of to the Melco Switch; meaning, reduce the Mosaic Control (iPad) to Bartok hop-count by one network element. By the way, what brand/model is that WAP?
Sure, but I suspect not without dCS going through major re-design/re-engineering of Mosaic’s architecture and how it works.
With the exception of Naim, Sim Audio and maybe a couple more - and no doubt they all have issues - majority of top DAC vendors don’t make their own App; MSB, Nagra, Wadax etc. Not to sound facetious, but if dCS takes away music playback management from Mosaic Control, and force people to use mConnect, or BubbleUPnP, or Roon like those other vendors, maybe the complaining stops?
Similar to Paul, with my dCS components, “occasional” hang/crash is like maybe once every 6 months; I rarely encounter it. It might be useful to understand how frequently it happens for you, note the sequence of events preceding the failure, and escalated to support @ dCS.
That said, dCS’ S800 boards is literally a Single-Board-Computer running an embedded Linux separate from the rest of dCS’ embedded system. Pick any SBC, very few of them running real-time code don’t occasional glitch across those sorts of time period and require a reboot.
I don’t know what streaming platform the Linn Klimax DS uses, but I doubt it’s as upgradeable as dCS’ S800. Ironically, 20 years ago, the constant failure of my (Meridian and) Linn digital source components is what led me to dCS to begin with!
PS Edit: I just took a look, the original Linn Klimax DS had a Xilinx Vertex-4 X20 at its streaming core; thats a PowerPC embedded FPGA SOC. Linn probably has their own proprietary OS that runs on that chip. It’s not as powerful as dCS’ S800 board, but definitely upgradeable. I stand corrected.
My whole network including the WAPs is Ubiquiti Unifi
The only trouble with connecting the Bartok to the WAP that the iPad is connected to is it’s the other side of the room! I can try it temporarily but it wouldn’t work long term. Thanks for the suggestion though.
Nope, all hardwired Ethernet as far as the Roon core and the Rossini concerns. My clock is the Rossini one, so no intelligence there; it’s the DAC that is supposed to choose the right frequency out of the two it provides.
Mine was hardwired too, but in a questionable way that (thankfully) I can’t now remember.
Agreed re: clock and frequencies, too — Gregg’s memory of what I said was slightly skew-whiff. I said that sometimes when the BITrate changed I got problems/visits from The Chipmunks.
Interesting. I have never had a bout of the “chipmunks” with either my Bartók or my Vivaldi. I wonder if this is specific to Rossini. Has anyone experienced this on any unit other than Rossini?
Thought it was in this thread - but can’t find it now; I seem to recall there was a Lina DAC user who had experienced the same problem. In order to experience the “chipmunk” issue, a few things have to line up otherwise I suspect you just get a dead DAC:
You need an active session to a streaming source, like for example Roon
The streaming board has lost control (screen info stuck, unresponsive remote, etc.)
The streaming source changes frequency, you get chipmunks if you go from high to low - I guess you get molasses mode if you go the other way though I have not experienced that yet.
I feel that we have just regressed by about a century: who cares about subtleties like cables - so often discussed - when the music won’t play at the right speed! Sorry, but it does have its comic aspect. (No disrespect intended towards those suffering this glitch.)
The "chipmunk Issue " is not the same as the “network issue” necessarily. It might be related or not. Whatever it is a different issue and it looks to me that it deserves a separate thread. I suggest that one of you with this problem starts a thread dedicated to it and tags Phil at dCS support. The existing network issue relates to drop out and discovery matters.
I have never had such an issue after several years of using Mosaic. However I once had this occur back in the day when I was running a PC based system connected directly to DAC ( Paganini) with high -res program provided from the Qobuz desktop player. 24/192 was replayed at random speed.No network connection involved. The solution is forgotten in the mists of time but it did not involve Qobuz.
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