What makes Octave irrelevant? Many of their releases are very nice and deliver plenty of listening enjoyment, without being the least bit “weird,” whatever that means Blue Coast, NativeDSD, and Sound Liaison are all pushing up against the envelope. Granted, many of their higher res releases have lower res provenance, But they are pushing in that direction, and if you read any of Cookie Marenco’s stuff, they have sound SQ reasoning for their efforts.
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Ok, I take that back. I just find the music uninteresting tbh, but I understand that it’s not terrible. I would say the same thing about Blue Coast, I will admit. I will also say that some transfers in higher rate DSD sound incredible (eg Brubeck’s “Take Five” on HighEndTapeTransfers). Stunning. But will I get more out of DSD256 vs DSD128 (which I bought)? I dunno, doubtful.
Now if PSA can get Yuja Wang to record with them, them I will pay attention.
Side note: Pls listen to her “Berlin Recital”. You’re welcome.
David Steven (dCS Managind Director) words, on the Apex presentation dCS official video.
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[RANT IN GOOD FUN]
Well, millennial or not, I’m pretty sure you’ve described yourself out of dCS’s target market (for now). 
If all one cares about is immersive, room-filling sound, you’re right: choices are plentiful and cheap. And when I’m watching the home theater, especially with family, that’s fine. Hell, Apple AirPods do that. But not musical fidelity. And judging by the numbers here, on PS Audio’s forum, at Steve Hoffman, on WBF, and other fora, there is still a target market for the joys of properly done stereo. Atmos? Pfffffft. Here’s raising a glass to the hope that dCS never waste any resources in that direction. But, to each their own.
Not sure who “we” is in that sentence, or which “part” you’re talking about, but speak for yourself. This isn’t WBF. 
[END RANT]
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v 2.0 software came out in 2016, Apex boards came in 2022
We don’t disagree about that (or even the fact that not all Octave stuff is equally interesting). I find the marginal differences right now, if any, not significant. But the development of expertise at using those differences, at pushing them forward—just like improving CDs, vinyl, SACDs, the engineering workstations that produce these files, etc.—over time could, it seems to me, produce even higher fidelity for us listeners. And if some of these artists being prodded by these small studios come to prefer higher resolution, well, then, we could be the beneficiaries of a virtuous spiral. And given what their engineering has produced so far, I would love dCS to be closer to the forefront of that than the rear. Not required. Just preferred.
And yes, some of the HDTT downloads are stunning.
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He mentions that the refinement of the Software over years led to them looking at the analog section, resulting in the Apex hardware upgrade. I don’t think he meant Apex has necessarily any software follow-up directly.
So what happens if MoFi starts selling their DSD256 transcriptions of master tapes?
Why does MoFi use DSD256? I’m sure they have a reason they didn’t just use DSD128.
As mentioned, NativeDSD has DSD512 content.
What happens when people who own music in those formats find they can’t play them on a dCS except perhaps via Roon?
This must be one of the busiest evenings ever on the forum 
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DSD512 is all post-process upsampled. I wouldn’t touch it with a 10-foot pole. 
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Does your dCS DAC process anything as native 16/44.1?
If not, then upsampling is OK at some point.
I have mine set to upsample everything to 2xDSD.
I’d rather chose for myself how and when any source gets upsampled, not someone else (like NativeDSD, and certainly not with HQPlayer).
ps: The Vivaldi Upsampler gives incredible flexibility on when and how sources get upsampled.
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Yes, but even without the Vivaldi Oversampler, you’re always technically oversampling when using a dCS DAC.
(Emboldening mine.)
dCS DACs oversample in several stages, eventually presenting the Ring DAC™ with 5-bit binary data at between 2.822MS/s and 6.144MS/s (depending on unit and settings). The Mapper decodes the data to a minimum of 32 digital signals, one corresponding to each binary state, then it scrambles the order of the signals. The Mapper randomises small matching errors in the Ring DAC core, converting what would be harmonic distortion to a small amount of extra noise.
The new Mappers are a milestone in the development of the dCS Ring DAC™, which forms the heart of Vivaldi 2.0, Rossini 2.0 and Bartók 2.0. Taking over a year to model and implement in software, the new Mappers greatly improve on the very technology that makes dCS unique. The 5-bit binary music data obtained after the oversampling and digital filtering stages is assigned, or mapped, onto forty- eight latch outputs at the core of the Ring DAC™. These outputs drive balanced current sources which are mixed, filtered, and amplified to produce the analogue output signal. The new Mapper algorithms have been developed to run at higher speeds while better avoiding mismatches that occur between outputs, further reducing any errors correlated with the signal. The results are superior linearity, even at very low signal levels.
This sophisticated Mapper functionality is implemented in the Ring DAC™ through dedicated FPGAs, offering dCS the power to improve and change these fundamental algorithms through software updates. This unprecedented flexibility also allows the user to choose their desired Mapper from a simple menu item. Version 2.00 software allows for two new Mappers (Mapper 1 and 3) together with the original (Mapper 2) for comparison. Subjectively, both new Mappers bring more detailed, expressive, tonally-complete, and full-bodied character over the original, but each offer subtle differences in sound that users can choose between, depending on their preference and ancillary equipment.
Fact remains I’d rather chose how and what Upsamples my sources, not someone else.
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I agree with you DSD256 would be nice.
Ha ha! Like being on Head-Fi!
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This is the probable answer. Good thnking!
Judging by this reply I think there’s a generational gap here that won’t be closed no matter what arguments I bring.
I’ll just leave it at : the new generations don’t remember/care about spinning vinyl and cds (though I did, and it was horrible) and nostalgia won’t work on them 
While it may work for mechanical watches, I’m going to bet against digital audio companies surviving with the same approach.
And the future of “high fidelity” is not infinitely upsampling 40 year old formats , it’s a paradigm shift, just like what’s (finally) happening in programming.
If you’ve heard properly done Atmos and heard car drive across the middle of the room and
crash into the wall , glass smashing that sounds like it came from the car, none of it from the speakers
(and this on relatively “cheap” gear), i’m not sure how you can go back to thinking higher sampling rates, or a slightly different tonality is impressive. Especially for the asked prices. Yawn.
That said, the music we love is still on old formats, just trying to put these “technological leaps” in perspective.
What people call “Fidelity” is just the audio companies putting the effort in “designing”/ “Tuning” the sound to sound a certain way…in most cases “real”. The tools to achieve this have been around for ages. They get better, sure. Sometimes unnecessarily so (Chord claiming -350db is audible but using a 5$ power supply because that noise isn’t audible so it doesn’t matter ), but I’m not sure who still thinks most of the cost of their dCS dac is in the hardware, and not the R&D and software.
Adrian - Perhaps your ‘horrible experience’ with spinning vinyl/CD’s was due to listening via 2 channel systems incapable of delivering what folks here care so much about—having truly musical experiences that are highly satisfying on multiple levels. Advancements by leading audio companies such as dCS contribute significantly to the systems that deliver these experiences, which is why people are on this forum—we care deeply about all of it and enjoy sharing thoughts and discoveries.
So great that you are an Atmos fan, however, your insistence of belittling what clearly matters to folks here is not impressive or helpful.
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