As the above post advises, the Vivaldi’s Footer Thread Size = M4 ¼-20. Is that the same for the Rossini and also its Clock?
Although I cannot answer your question directly, the feet on Vivaldi are wider than on Rossini ( I just checked with calipers). Although in itself that does not necessarily mean that the thread sizes are also different it suggests it may not be a good idea just to assume that they are the same.
Thanks Pete. I did attempt to find the footer screw specifics in the Rossini Owners Manual, but obviously failed to do so.
Hopefully, Andrew will confirm and to preclude similar questions, it would be good if the footer thread sizes for all dCS DAC’s, Players, Clock’s etc. were confirmed.
As has been mentioned on similar threads, the thread used on the fixing hole with the metal feet and plastic cores removed for the Rossini feet is an M4. The length is variable…
It will be incredibly difficult to provide a comprehensive list of specs for the screws used on each dCS product. Given that there are necessary differences in the casework, board positions and so on between units, the lengths of the M4 screws used will differ.
As such, if you are looking at changing the feet on your Rossini, go for an M4 thread. For the length, measure the length of thread which protrudes from the plastic core when attached to the metal foot to set the limit for intrusion into the case. The screw on the feet you use should not exceed this.
It goes without saying that this is undertaken at your own risk; putting a screw through the bottom of your unit while fitting third party feet won’t be covered by dCS
Thanks James. Because it was superfluous to the answer, it’s interesting that you chose to advise that this was “mentioned on similar threads”. FYI, I did do a search, before asking the question and didn’t readily find an answer.
Nice to know that dCS can point to other posts, but chooses NOT to insert this data into their manuals. I did look in my Manual first before searching this thread and couldn’t find anything. However, perhaps it was mentioned in multiple paragraphs and my search words failed to find it.
Was your caveatt serious, or did the smiley mean that it was in jest? If the former, could this be why dCS chose to exclude inserting footer attachment information in the Rossini manual (and thus conceivably in their other owner’s manuals)? On the other hand, if it can be found in the manual, I’m sure as you did in your first sentence, you will be more than happy to point it out.
But yet the difficulties you cite, are overcome by even the least expensive consumer products! For most every consumer item requiring assembly – the manufactures of trinkets, toys et al., in their instructions (sorta’ like your manuals) somehow manage to specify a bill of material of what’s to be found in the box, including hardware sizing!
But I digress, my purpose in suggesting that such information be posted here, also was done to infer it should be at least included in your component’s consumer supplied information. I do believe that dCS is considered a fairly high end brand. Therefore, it should be obvious that many owners will consider installing after-market footers. Thus, was this question deemed better to be answered via support calls or venues such as this? If so, the tact of wasting your owners time and support staff’s time was successful – again, only if such useful information isn’t already in your manuals, or if the overt exclusion of same, was purposeful because of your "undertaking at your own risk" statement.
For the sake of clarity, the threading on the Vivaldi is M4. The threading on the Stillpoints Ultra is ¼-20. They are not the same. My use of the two measurements together was a reference to the Stillpoints adapter that permits the use of the Stillpoints with the Vivaldi. And it has worked flawlessly with all three of my Vivaldi boxes. But other third party feet might have different attachment methods and hardware sizes. I also take James’ warning about shank depth seriously. Stillpoints supplies this data about their adapters, and as James notes, it’s easy to measure the shank depth on the OEM screws.
I’m not sure this is an apt or fair comparison. Assembly instructions include a bill of materials so as to make sure that the necessary components are there for the purchaser to complete assembly. If dCS sold their components unassembled, such a bill would be expected. But they don’t. And I certainly don’t expect them or any other finished equipment maker from whom I purchase to supply me a BOM of all hardware that goes into the item.
Granted, one might be inclined to put replacement footers in that category of “Things You Might Want to Change,” à la power cords and digital/analog interconnects. But I rarely see other high end makers do this. But I admittedly haven’t been looking.
Firstly, my apologies, I genuinely thought the Rossini had been mentioned on the parallel Vivaldi feet topic. My mistake entirely, and I do hope the tone did not come across in a negative way, as that was not the intention.
To clarify for anyone reading, the feet used on the Rossini and Vivaldi are identical, and both use the M4 thread.
The disclaimer about replacing the feet with third-party feet is serious. Not intended as a direct comment at anyone, yourself included; this is a public forum with a variety of users so as a manufacturer when providing advice on such a topic it needs to be said that any damage caused by fitting third-party parts to a dCS product isn’t something which will be covered by warranty. While low risk, it is still a modification and so assuming people may well see this for years to come, it is noteworthy. The smiley face was purely to lighten things, my comment seemed a bit ominous without it!
In terms of inclusion in the manuals, the two threads (this thread and the simultaneous Vivaldi thread) is the most activity I have seen on this topic, both via the forum and other support channels. You are correct that the information is not in the manuals. For context, we have had no requests for it to be included in the manuals before now, from end users or through our distribution network. In cases where users have requested this information over the years, it has been dealt with on a case-by-case basis. This, coupled with the above on modifications, is why it has not been included in the manuals.
Being a dCS product owner and aficionado, I obviously understand and acknowledge that dCS products are SOTA ones. Hence, unlike the Heath Kit’s of old or Lego’s, some assembly is NOT required for dCS products (to paraphrase a widely used slogan). Thus, of course, my assembly example was NOT at all made to suggest that a BOM or any assembly of a dCS product was necessary!! It was made to point out the absurd hyperbole of James’ "incredibly difficult" paragraph, especially in light of dCS’s technological acumen!
My original suggestion of inserting the specs of a single fastener per product, for each of their products in this forum or in their manuals, was made to help, NOT criticize. Why on earth would I do so? I love dCS and my Rossini! My observation was made to aid both dCS and their product owners about an issue that most of us will be interested; so as to halt owners – to no avail as I found – from consulting their manuals, or this forum. With the outcome of this search being to consult with dCS personnel either on the phone, electronically or herein. Is that not a positive and time saver for all? Once that sort of template is established as a need in an owner’s manual or herein, it would only need updated as specs are updated or products are released. Unless of course, dCS really doesn’t want us removing footer screws, or they would rather use their valuable human resources to address each and every common question on an ad hoc basis.
At the dCS level of the audio hobby, most of us are “audiophoolish” about such things as footers, are we not? dCS under the auspices of James, could have simply declined the suggestion. Ending it there, sans turning my 1-part (times the number of products) recommendation into some sort of "comprehensive list of specs" and feigned hyperbole – reference follows:
[quote=“James, post:4, topic:1606”]
It will be incredibly difficult to provide a comprehensive list of specs for the screws used on each dCS product. Given that there are necessary differences in the casework, board positions and so on between units, the lengths of the M4 screws used
If you were not a representative of dCS, I would have given your following opening “as has been mentioned” gambit, the grain-of-salt recognition that it deserved.
Although this sort of finger wagging is oftentimes seen on forums, there is no need for it; with the motivation and inclination being unnecessary. It would be better if the finger wager got off their lazy rear – as they’re inferring the other poster do, before asking the question – and insert a link to the referenced post(s); and as in your case, it would have been less than lazy and as a company rep, PRUDENT to actually check before thoughtlessly throwing out the accusation!
Even as an anonymous forum member, I would never express the “as been mentioned” statement for the reasons I cited and because as I initially said, minus a helpful link to the "as has been mentioned" posts, it is superfluous. Thus, such a statement can only be perceived as a negative, especially lacking a helpful link – which if you had bothered to look, would have precluded you from ever saying it!
So I found the beginning phrase a slight poke in the chest and quite unworthy of a representative of a company with the reputation of a dCS.
To make matters worse, your above laughably “incredibly difficult” statement followed by its inane logic – when compared to the 1-screw issue at hand – went unintelligibly, nonsensically overboard. All the heck I was asking, was for just one (1), yep, JUST ONE bolt or screw (in 4-instances), to be specified! I wasn’t asking for the meaning of life, or for the entire illustrated parts lists of each of your products, to be published!!
But of course one thoughtless, ilogical voice in the forest, doesn’t tarnish a business of dCS’ stature; especially given how much Andrew has done to provide the opposite, by spearheading this superb forum; accompanied by his responses therein.
I have found the site in general and Andrew’s responses specifically, to be insightful, helpful, cogent, gentlemanly, but more importantly, worthy of a company selling luxury items like the Bartók, Rossini and Vivaldi. Please keep up the good work Andrew! I for one appreciate and learn from your efforts.