From previously looking at the Packet flows, the issue is not really caused by an iDevice/iOS or Android device per se, it’s due the nature of Mosaic’s architecture; in how dCS Mosaic Control on your iDevice/Android works with dCS Mosaic Processor on the Streaming board in the dCS hardware.
It is the way it is by design. Normally, such query/response won’t take more than a few milliseconds, making it “invisible” to the User experience, but the amount of state information update required in some cases seems to drag it out into seconds (not to mention some less than ideal home network setups causing it to go beyond just 1 or 2 seconds).
Something like the Aurender Conductor I’m sure has a very different (and possibly older and processor intensive) architecture. Mosaic, as a whole, actually has quite a modern REST-based architecture.
ps:
By the way, just as a reminder to folks reading this thread. Mosaic Control is a control point that has absolutely no impact on the sound quality.
The dCS hardware is responsible for directly pulling down music streams, locally via UPnP or RAAT, or remotely via HTTP, completely separately from Mosaic Control. So, none of this discussion has anything to do with sound quality.
my annoyance indeed has nothing to do with SQ, I do think my network is working well (I am not an IT specialist), the only “hick up” there is is with the Mosaic app. As said before I have learned to live with it, listening to music is relexation for me. (it makes me pick up my Ipad less and listen to full albums, like with records in the past)
@Anupc Like others have mentioned, I too experience the ‘Lost Connection’ message, but it’s not a big deal. In your reply you mention that Mosaic operates in a stateless fashion, which makes sense and that iOS loses the DAC’s state info once the device goes to sleep or Mosaic is no longer the app in focus. Does the same apply if using the Android version of Mosaic?
Yup, the software architecture remains the same even with Android as the host OS for Mosaic Control. However, similar to how preventing auto-lock/sleep on iOS/iDevice helps reduce the instances, Android may have a similar operating modes.
I rarely use my Android device with Mosaic Control, but maybe someone else who uses Android frequently can post about their experiences?
Or if you’re a tech sort of person, all my devices get a reserved address assigned by the DHCP server in my dedicated router - the ISP can make all the changes they want, my home network will never see them.
Interestingly, I’ve actually noticed this happening a lot more than it used to as well. I’ve been running Mosaic on a dedicated Android tablet for over a year now and recently when I wake it up it will work fine for maybe 30 seconds then freeze and need to reconnect. This has also started happening if I say queue up an album, go to the play queue and select “Play from here” on a specific track.
I figured this was some intermittent network issue or something at first, but it’s happening basically every time I use Moasic now. It’s hard to explain what might have changed though. I’ve been on the latest firmware and Mosaic build for a while, and haven’t made any major updates to the tablet or routers. Maybe something on the Qobuz side? Anyway, will keep an eye on it.
Yep happens on Android and has nothing to do with device going to sleep in my system - I suspect that’s a red herring. My n/w is stable and only Mosaic appears to demonstrate this behaviour compared to Naim’s which is used for most of the day in my other system and very rarely hangs. I would respectfully suggest dCS people sort this out as, whilst not mission critical, does look somewhat amateur and kind of annoying as others have noted.
I have both the Naim and dCS apps in use on my iOS and Android devices at home too and don’t have any issues with either but happy to escalate any issues that can be recreated to the dev team … what exactly is the issue that you are seeing with the Android version?
Easiest for us to track and respond if you could send details over to [email protected] then it gets into our ticketing system and it won’t get lost or buried in forum threads…
Thanks for coming back on this Phil. I just wanted to corroborate what others have said in this thread. Basically, Mosaic seems to lose connection with my Rossini player from time to time and then re-establish connection after a few seconds by itself without any user action. Mosaic 1.3.0 (132) is installed on my Samsung Galaxy S7 phone with Android 8.0. My Rossini was recently upgraded to APEX. The connection dropping seems to be intermittent, random and not very frequent. It is not to do with phone sleep or timeout settings. My network is stable and also as stated the Naim App never has a connection problem with my Naim devices. Nothing more to add really but I did not raise a support ticket as this is annoying but not a huge issue for me. However, as others also seem to be experiencing the same issue, there is clearly something general amiss. Happy to provide full details if dCS support wishes to follow up.
We are aware that the app comes up with a message that says that it has lost communication whilst it re-establishes the link.
I wanted to get details from David as to exactly what the issue that he was seeing was as often these threads do get quite loaded with “I have issues too” but they’re not necessarily the same issue.
As per Anup’s earlier breakdown of it, the time it takes to reconnect the app to a unit will vary dependent on the network and the amount of status information being pulled back from the device so I believe that the app authors are changing the text that is displayed whilst the app is reconnecting.
Im wondering if the size of the network or the number of access points between the mosaic control device ( whatever it is) and the hard wired vivaldi could effect this time
Very likely - and also depends on what “source” you’re listening to at the time too as the amount of data required to be sent to give Mosaic the correct status will also vary.
Exactly. Specifically, the number of hops between Mosaic on an iDevice/Android and the dCS unit.
In most cases, it’s at least 2 hops; a Wifi Access Point that the iDevice/Android is connected to, and a main Ethernet Switch that the dCS unit is connected to. The mDNS query/response through those hops for Mosaic to rediscover the dCS unit and then to get a fresh status update takes a split second or two.
As Phil indicates, it also depends on the source material album, length, cover art, etc., that contributes to the total time an update can take. And also on what else the iDevice/Android is doing, it’s not just sleep. Google Android especially, does all kinds of funky stuff in the background that often causes Mosaic to require an update from the dCS unit.
I suspected as much. Local server and qobuz but on a mesh network and dcs plugged into dedicated switch then a 150 ft run to router. Router spit to various other switches and 3 access wireless points, one of which picks up my cell or ipad
So why does the Naim App not exhibit the same connection problems? It offers very similar behaviour in terms of source and device access etc - and works on exactly the same network as Mosaic in my system. I think always blaming the n/w is a cop out tbh and is something that dCS needs to check out and fix.
There are quite a few differences between how the Naim and dCS apps work … the Naim app doesn’t pull anywhere near as much information when reconnecting to a device and instead updates more on each individual action - it moves the points where it transfers data and I suspect that if we also simply removed the message saying that the dCS app was reconnecting then it would also be far less noticeable as to what it is doing.
I note your comment and respect your opinion but the simple fact is that the underlying network often IS a limiting factor - if I’m sat downstairs with the dCS app on my phone controlling the HiFi then I very rarely see that message for long enough to notice that it has even appeared but if I whip my phone out while I’m sat in the bath upstairs and run up the dCS app then that message is there long enough to be noticeable and can take several seconds to clear.
Thanks for the feedback Phil - fair comments and obviously I don’t know the technicalities of the difference between the Naim App and Mosiac and why one needs to pull much more information than the other. From an end user point of view, both apps appear to be doing similar jobs and both work on the same n/w in my system, so both have to cope with the same idiosyncrasies of my setup. I take your point about removing the message in Mosaic which may fix the annoyance as long as it doesn’t give rise to other unintended consequences. Great to know the dCS team are aware and investigating. Much appreciated!
