Options...Vivaldi-Rossini+ the rest :-)

I’m thinking of upgrading…what do you think gives best SQ improvement?
Running now a Rossini Apex + Rossini Clock + Innuos (NAS with Mosaic).
I could jump from here:

  1. Rossini Apex + Vivaldi Clock + Innuos (NAS with Mosaic)
  2. Vivaldi Apex + Innuos (now via USB attached direct to Vivaldi’s USB) no clock
  3. Vivaldi Apex + Rossini Clock + Innuos (USB like 2)

Thanks for your ranking folks!


Based on how long Vivaldi has been in production and with no other “factory” information I would guess that Vivaldi will be replaced this or next year.

I wouldn’t invest in Vivaldi at this point in its life-cycle. I’d suggest waiting for its replacement, or for all the used Vivaldi’s coming on the market when it arrives.


very good point Omni- didn’t think about that fact! I’ll stick with my stack and watch the upcoming signs now. Guess the next checkpoint is May? (High-End fair in Munich)

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Agreed that it is quite likely that the Vivaldi will be superseded this year. However we said that last year (and the year before that) and look what we got - Apex. Which won Stereophile’s product of the year award. Not too shabby for a product in its eleventh year of production, let alone a digital product!

The massive price increases of recent years mean that a used Vivaldi stack can now be had for less than half of current list price. Even if a good many come onto the used market when the nee flagship arrives it will only push prices down if supply exceeds demand and there’s no guarantee that will be the case. I doubt you are the only Rossini owner thinking of upgrading!

So I would say go used and go now. Who knows what is going to happen tomorrow? Carpe diem!


Vivaldi has been in production since 2013. However it was replaced in 2022 by Vivaldi Apex.

If the OP is in no rush then wait to see what happens at Munich High End later in the year. However although I have sympathy with what you say, three years ago there was all sorts of activity in this forum guessing about Vivaldi’s replacement. Instead there was the unanticipated Apex . Of course there has to be a Vivaldi replacement at some point which we may be reaching.After all dCS have to have something to sell. Gambling on when? I’ve no idea.

I may have written this three or four years ago but I am reminded of the 1950s. My childhood friend Jeremy’s father refused to buy their first TV as he knew colour was coming. This was 1956. He was right, colour TV arrived in the UK in 1967. I wonder if he held off that long?

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I was surprised by the speculation that the Vivaldi Apex isn’t a new DAC to replace the existing Vivaldi; rather, we’re anticipating something entirely new. If a new flagship DAC is imminent, will the relatively new Vivaldi Apex still remain but be relegated in status? If so, the new flagship would presumably be significantly more expensive.

I don’t quite understand this comment . Vivaldi is no longer available and has been replaced with Vivaldi Apex. However this is not a new line or, if you prefer, new platform. Other than the Apex board all is the same as before hence the possibility of the upgrade.

One cannot accurately predict what may happen when an ( inevitable) new line at the top of range emerges. To date the history shows that the previous flagship is retired. The cost is also open to conjecture. My own view is simply wait until it happens. I (and probably you) have nothing other than unsupported speculation at present.


@T38.45 I had the same issue, then i saw the space i have to put the dac and problem solved, i can only change my Bartók Apex for the Rossini with clock, i was considering the Vivaldi Apex plus the Upsampler but the problem space help to decided, sometimes problems can help :slight_smile: :sweat_smile:

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Option 2.

You sell your Rossini stuff. Play the Vivaldi + Innuos, you don’t need any clock.

Save money until you can buy the Vivaldi Upsampler.

But just option 2 shall be a huge improvement.

Thanks all- I don’t want to make a hasty decision since I have no pressure. I’ll wait until May for the High End in Munich now- their are too many open parameters… my hope is a Vivaldi II with LAN port :wink:

Is possible to be significantly more expensive than the Vivaldi ?

Who would buy a 140.000 € dac ? But if the Upsampler is included in the same box, than it is a bargain :laughing::scream:

Take it for what it’s worth however a dealer (who I will not name) indicated dCS were aiming for a Wadax priced DAC as their next offering - while still keeping the Vivaldi APEX in the line up.

The air gets mighty thin up there imho

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Wadax like?- hope not design wise :rofl:


I once met the founder and principal of a high-end electronics manufacturer who was touring European dealers in conjunction with the Munich show. He told me that the only way he could sell more product was to double the price. Back then (and maybe still now) the major market was in Asia. At the time their top end model was priced at somewhere just north of $100k and right enough a year-or-two later they released a new flagship somewhere north of $200k. Yes, the air is pretty thin up there, but with more than 6 million(!) millionaires in China alone it is apparently still perfectly possible to breathe!

Edit: I thought it was 4 million but apparently it is over 6!

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We should all learn the cantonese on this forum! In a couple of years we won’t be able ro read the posts otherwise :face_with_peeking_eye:

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Last I looked the Chinese economy was not doing so well. That ship may be starting to leave the port

As someone who used to work in the fashion industry I am seeing sales of the major luxury brands taking quite a hit in the Chinese market.

The mindset of hifi manufacturers building up for the Chinese market was valid and appropriate for a long time. As we all know…… things change


Good point. But change is always bad for some and good for others so someone is no doubt thriving amidst all the current doom and gloom. Unfortunately Sweden comes in at a lowly 17 on Credit Suisse’s ranking of countries by number of millionaires so don’t reckon on us to take up the slack!

Continuing the discussion from Options…Vivaldi-Rossini+ the rest :slight_smile::

Continuing the discussion from Options…Vivaldi-Rossini+ the rest :slight_smile::

Continuing the discussion from Options…Vivaldi-Rossini+ the rest :slight_smile::

Correct – The Vivaldi has already been replaced with the Vivaldi APEX. The new model, suspected to be announced in Munich will be at least a 2 but, in all likelihood, a 3 box, multi-power supply unit sporting a 6-figure price tag - beginning with a 2. It definitely won’t be butt ugly like the Wadax. The hierarchy, IMO will reflect:

New Model
Vivaldi APEX
Rossini APEX
Bartók APEX

The interesting question should be what will dCS name this new model? How about following the naming convention of Italian Classical Romantics – Clementi??

Just my 2 cents. :coin:

Best to all,


As a newcomer to dCS’s advanced audio systems, I’m intrigued by their approach to developing a new flagship product. What distinguishes their renowned models like the Bartók, Rossini, and Vivaldi? Is their success attributed to a consistent enhancement strategy, elevating each model progressively to superior levels? Or does it stem from groundbreaking advancements in core technology? The possibility of a new, state-of-the-art super ring DAC is particularly exciting, potentially revolutionizing the audio experience. As an avid dCS enthusiast, I am eager to see if they will indeed take this innovative leap, setting new standards in the audio industry.

Bob, you write as if the forthcoming marketing plans of dCS are part of your knowledge, so where does this information come from?

What you say may or may not be the case but I have no idea as to any confirming information. What I do know is that over the past few years there has been much speculation including some similar to yours but until dCS make a public announcement or there is other sustainable information I am afraid I have to treat your post as speculation along with the lest.

Clementi? Well the dCS history is to name most domestic products after composers. Not always Italian ; the first series of products were all British, Elgar, Purcell . Others were named after places associated with opera,La Scala, Verona. Of course Clementi was Italian-British.