Two silly questions.
Why on Mosaic am I seeing a track playing on Roon (if that track is actually playing on Roon)? Is the app just showing what the Upsampler is playing, even if the file is playing out of Roon? This is a file downloaded from Qobuz Hires.
How can I play on the Mosaic app a file which physically resides on the Roon Nucleus?
for 2. I think that would only be possible if Roon Nucleus would allow you to install dlna/upnp services (that is imho not possible-Iâm running a Roonn Nucleus as well, itâs a closed system)
Yes exactly.
Roon Server itself is a relatively closed system, but Roonâs internal music file storage is open via SMB.
You can, but not easily. You need an external UPnP Server (like MinimServer), and mount Roon internal storage as an SMB fileshare as the UPnPâs music database.
But if youâre asking on the expectation that the music quality will be better than using Roon, the answer is no.
@Anupc - I 100% agree with you on all points.
If you REALLY want to go down a rabbit hole you could move your music storage off of the Nucleus to a NAS that also ran UPnP. You could then use Mosaic or Roon. But this really would be more for the fun of it then any gain in SQ.
Thanks guys. So in reality Mosaic does not improve SQ per se if you already have Roon. Is this what youâre saying? what about adding a separate NAS and play files residing there using either Mosaic/UPnP or Roon?
On playing your same files over MosaicâŠ
My setup is as follows: A main computer (macpro) where I curate my local library. Here I rip CDs, scan album art (eg from physical CDs), dowload purchases, and curate my SACD rips. Once my library is how I want it I run Chronosync to update my NUC/ROCK library with the changes in this library. This works very well because I can make any changes I want in my library and then sync just those changes, which is fast. It also works great as I backup this library to a number of disks for safety.
Because I have this identical copy of my Roon ROCK library, I run Minimserver on this library which shows me all of my local files.
Although this is not quite your original question, I definitely recommend this workflow.
Hi Franco, on the recommendation of the DCS community, I first used a Melco N1Z/2EX H60 as a NAS server on which I stored all my music accessible by the DCS upsampler via Mosaic and Minimserver, then I bought a Roon Nucleus plus to test and see what it could give. At first the Nucleus could read the files stored on the Melco, then in a second time I added a big SSD inside the Nucleus and copied all the files stored on the Melco to the Nucleus from my home network. One is the safeguarding of the other and vice versa.
Thanks to Miguelito for Chronosync
Thanks to T38.45: for the clarifications on the internal storage of the Nucleus which is accessible.
Philippe, I strongly advise you to make at least one more backup. If you have only a single backup and your source ( either one in your case) fails then you have to replace it with a backup. If you do this you are then left with no backup and are vulnerable. I would suggest using portable USB HDD drives for this.
Ideally you should make a further backup which should be kept off site, perhaps with a friend. You then have protection against flood, fire and theft.
Philippe, can you confirm that with your current setup youâre only using the Roon software to play hires files? If so, this is the same that I do.
I was wondering whether playing hires files using UPnP through the Mosaic app would improve SQ.
The disadvantage of digital is often the poor power supplies of computers and servers that end up straining listenersâ ears because of high frequency noise, hence my choice of Merlco with a Plixir power supply as a NAS server. This Melco has a network input and a player input (here Vivaldi upsampler) protected from these noises. In addition this Nas Melco is connected to the network through a Melco S100/1 switch also powered by a Plixir power supply. The Nucleus Plus, also powered by a Plixir power supply, is plugged into this switch. My next development is to insert optical fiber between my router and my Melco switch using an ADOT/Plixir combination. As a result, the insulation will in principle be total.
As for my audio files, they are almost all Aif or Wave (at least 16/44). Since switching to the much better APEX version of my Vivaldi dac, I use Roon more than Mosaic; But although the 2 are bit perfect, I can notice different tones.
You will find that there are two answers to this.
Answer 1 is that if set up correctly Roon delivers a bit perfect copy of the file to your DAC. When I say set up correctly in this instance I mean that no DSP functions have been applied which would, of course, change the sound in some way. If both Mosaic and Roon deliver bit perfect files to the DAC then there is no way that they can sound different , or so the argument goes.
Answer 2 is that despite the above Mosaic sounds better. This is similar to the argument that goes on regarding fancy network switches. Not possible in theory but significant numbers disagree.
There seems o be no rational reason why two bit perfect network sources can sound different , everything else being equal, (at least so far discovered , there is currently only unsupported speculation) . So either the belief in sonic differences is wrong or the cause lies elsewhere at least as far as digital distribution is concerned. I wonder if like is truly being compared with like? For example if different interfaces are being used for each. I donât recall any details being posted.
If the comparisons are fair then this still does not provide any obvious cause for audible differences AFAIK. This , as so often in this hobby, leaves only a matter of preference which cannot be applied universally.
IMO, until there is documented proof one way or the other , the only way that you can be certain, at least for your own satisfaction, is to try it yourself.,
As a contribution to this thread, hereâs a description of my âcomputer audioâ â we used to call it so â setup. (Itâs a rather long post. Maybe should I start another thread ?)
These smart playlists rotate through my library. The additional BIG benefit of using JRiver for this task is volume leveling. When you have tracks ranging from â14 db to +14 db (at least), itâs an absolute must. Yes, thereâs a toll taken from SQ, BUT, with this machine, itâs very little and itâs absolutely negligible when you are not mindfully listening. I wouldnât have said that with my previous setup â a 2015 iMac â where the loss was significant for the piano, in transparency, etc. This speaks a lot about the M2 Pro processor.Without any pretension of being either ârightâ or âcorrectâ or âaccurateâ or âscientifically provenâ, hereâs what I would say about the sound quality of the different possibilities . On a scale of 0 to 1000, 1000 being the âepitome of what can be achieved with top cables, top Ethernet switches (read very expensive ones), top servers (read excessively expensive ones)â, I would rate my setup like this :
What about AudirvÄna ? Well, as much as I would like to love it, I still have mixed feelings about it, despite having tried and tested it for many years â from the very beginning, actually. Hereâs what I have to say â please donât throw eggs at me.
So⊠Iâm still testing, version after version, but havenât yet made it my player of choice.
I hope I have provided some interesting ideas and facts. Sorry for the length of the post.
Olivier :-{)
NB : the schema describes the topology of the network, not the actual wiring. There are some switches here and thereâŠ
Nicely done. A masterâs class!
Hi Olivier, your post is very interesting and superbly presented. You must have spent time (and money) making it all work because in my experience, in computer audio, there is always something that does not work. I too used to use JRiver among others with a Paganini stack and a Sony laptop. This software was also the one used by the DCS team at this time. I also remember memorable listenings with the simple Foobar for example. After my gradual switch to the VIVALDI stack, I was even tempted for a while to buy a QNAP HS 453 DX as a NAS server. Mais non (but no).
Among my immediate entourage audiophile and musicophile (electronics friends, âGrande Ecoleâ engineers, resellers known for a long time, âŠ), a very large part of hifi journalists of all nationalities and manufacturers themselves evoke this question of these high frequency interference emitted by devices intended primarily for computing and which are likely to lower the Signal/Noise ratio.
Of course DCS products are very strongly or even nearly perfectly filtered against these noises but I still wanted to check this out.
The CD -a simple 16/44- that served as comparison test is as following:
Henri Dutilleux/MĂ©taboles â Ochestre de Paris â Paavo Jarvi at ERATO.
This CD has a very high dynamic of about 19 according to ROON.
Track 1 (Incantatory) and 5 (Flamboyant) were used. This last track #5 has a very strong increase in dynamics (like the BOLERO of RAVEL for example).
The listening was done at an identical sound level (whatever the source) but realistic (configured on the track #5).
The sources tested are as follows:
I replaced the MELCO S100/1/PLIXIR switch combination with a SILENT ANGEL N8 with its Forester linear power supply.
The NAS server for MINIMSERVER and AUDIRVANA is the Melco N1Z/2EX H60 HD (6 TB) which also contains the copy of the CD.
The cables are original AUDIOQUEST, MIT, CRYSTAL, TRANSPARENT. The VIVALDI dac is APEX and broken in (very strong improvement with this evolution).
Context :
the preamp is a SOLO VIOLA set, the amp a CELLO RHAPSODY MATTHEW JAMES and the speakers the MARTIN LOGAN ESL 15A. A PS AUDIO P10 is used as a current generator. The listening room is dedicated solely to listening to music. There is no annoying parasitic resonance.
Listening to the CD is worth 100.
With all the products connected to the SWITCH and according to my opinion:
If I plug the upsampler back into the MELCO player jack, all the listening on the MELCO NAS improves:
If I go back to the MELCO switch to replace the SILENT ANGEL, all the listening still progresses slightly IMO.
The notes are there to give a feeling, what counts is the hierarchy that is established.
With streaming, things get worse. In any case, as you also say, listening quality is related to recordings and as audio systems are more and more solving, they do not forgive bad recordings.
I am very long but I spent three afternoons making these comparisons however very pleasant and instructive.
Philippe
