There are many thread on dcs.community about the impact of the dCS Clocks, I’d highly recommend you have a read of them.
It’d be nice to see the more detailed measurements that Stereophile does, rather than the very rudimentary and low-resolution graphs from HiFi News, but considering they have the same owner, I wonder if we’ll ever see Lina reviewed by Stereophile. 
Yeah … the Unifi UI tries to automatically identify the type of device to give it an appropriate icon which is a nice idea but it has become something of a liability - especially with things like ESP32 based home automation devices!
sigh
Phil
To be fair HFN always used to acknowledge that more complete laboratory reports could be found online. However they recently appear to have ceased doing this. Lack of interest?
Indeed, I’ve had the opportunity to read through most of the discussions, and they’ve been incredibly interesting. However, I couldn’t help but notice that there hasn’t been much specific mention of the impact that using a clock has on DSD upscaling. Additionally, I haven’t seen any mention of the Bartok Apex being used in conjunction with a clock yet.
As previously mentioned, the Lina boasts remarkably low distortion in comparison to the Bartok or Rossini DACs, which makes it all the more intriguing to learn about any potential benefits that a clock could have when used with the device, particularlywith DSD upsampling in focus. I believe it would be highly beneficial for the dCS community to delve deeper into this area, and I look forward to any insights that may be gained from further exploration.
I completely agree with you that they offer much more comprehensive reviews in general. It’s not surprising that they take their time to release their reviews, sometimes waiting for a year or more to make sure they’ve thoroughly tested the product.
Regarding the Lina, I was also surprised that it didn’t come out as an Apex device from the get-go, especially since the new Ring DAC technology was already well-established by the time it was introduced. However, if an Apex version is released, I hope that the cost won’t be too prohibitive. The modular board of the DAC might work in our favor, making upgrades more cost-effective and easier to implement.
In the meantime, I’m hoping that the Lina 2.0 firmware will be released fairly soon. There’s definitely a need for a fix for the filter-switching issue, and it’s only right that the DAC has access to the new mappers and additional filters. Overall, I think there’s a lot of potential for the Lina and I’m excited to see what upgrades and improvements are in store for it.
I admit that I haven’t paid much attention to that specific comparison. Before going down the clocking path, I listened to my Vivaldi almost exclusively with DSD upsampling for the first few weeks. And I liked it a lot. When I switched over to DXD to listen for a few weeks, I discovered that the “organic” quality of the sound, which is what attracted me to the dCS line, was more thoroughly reproduced. For want of a better analogy, it reminded me of how a well-.tuned bell or wind chime sounds when struck and the note hangs in the air for what feels like forever. And DXD seemed to sound best at that for PCM. When my Clock arrived, I did not run through this again. I’m not even sure I thought about doing so, inasmuch as what sounded excellent in both PCM and DSD domains were each further improved.
Thanks so much for sharing your experience with PCM and DSD formats! It’s awesome to hear about your journey with the dCS line and how you discovered the unique “organic” quality of sound that sets this equipment apart. I feel similarly.
You mentioned that DXD was better at reproducing this quality than DSD upsampling, at least when playing back audio native to that particular format, and I totally agree with you. I used to use a DENAFRIPS Terminator II and hi-res DSD upsampling with HQPlayer and loved what I heard. But every time I switched to the native format, I felt like I heard more of that authentic and organic music.
PCM and DSD have strengths and weaknesses, and I think they sound best in their native domains. For example, PCM is great for high-fidelity audio recordings and playback, while DSD is known for capturing subtle nuances and details.
I’m curious about the specific effect of DSD upsampling and whether utilizing a master clock can add back a bit of that leading edge, clarity, and higher resolution that DXD has with natively recorded audio. If not, reducing bit depth through the conversion process may be a limitation. I’d also like to know more about how the clock impacts factors like jitter and overall SNR, especially regarding upsampled DSD. For the longest time, I was interested in EMM and Meitner products like the MA3 DACs. I love how their products intuitively select the appropriate filter types on the fly and upsample the DSD to 16X.
Even though I mostly stream my music from Qobuz, I agree that PCM sounds excellent when played through all high-fidelity equipment. Your experience highlights the significance of selecting the suitable format and gear to achieve your desired sound quality.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and insights on this topic. They’re genuinely helpful to anyone interested in high-fidelity audio and exploring the benefits of dCS products and settings.
Quite right. I don’t think anyone’s focused too much on the impact of external clocking on DSD Upsampling. dCS obviously has different DSD filters that noise-shape differently, since SNR is proportional to jitter, the different filters will have varying jitter performance as well. Nevertheless, according to that HiFiNews review, even the DSD F1 filter’s highest jitter is only at just over -120dBFS.
I don’t think there are too many Bartok Apex units out in the field yet 
Unlike the rest of the dCS family which have the DAC board thats separate from the Control-board. Lina has a combined Control/DAC board, so Apex upgrades on Lina will be tricky at best.
What’s the filter-switching issue?
Did you mean the muting relay-clicks during source bit-rate change - which is a normal behaviour of dCS DACs. It’s described in the following post from James:
Hey there! @Anupc. You bring up some fair points.
Firstly, you’re spot on about a filter’s potential impact on DSD upsampling - a topic that gets less attention than it deserves. Each of dCS’s DSD filters noise-shape differently, which can affect the signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) due to varying jitter performance. However, I would like to know more about how the clock impacts the audible performance of the DAC regarding the DSD upsampling in general and if any improvement to the dullness, bloating, and laid-back nature of the DSD upsampling process is mitigated.
After these discussions, I experimented with DSD upsampling directly from Roon. By upsampling to DSD128, most of the Lina upsampling is bypassed, but when I upsample in Roon to DSD64 with a 7th-order noise-shaper and a precise minimum phase filter, the result is nothing short of magical. Moreover, the music produced seems significantly better than native PCM upsampled to DXD.
Upon initial comparison, what was lacking in the internal dCS upsampling of PCM to DSD appears more than compensated for by Roon’s processing. Using a minimum phase filter only adds to the sonic benefits.
Try this method if you want to experience a significant improvement in sound quality when using DSD upsampling.
I completely agree with you regarding the Bartok Apex. However, as you mention, since few units are out there, much discussion has yet to be about using it with a clock. This is precisely why I am eager to hear more about it.
The filter-switching issue has been a longstanding problem discussed at-length on the forums. When users select F2 for PCM playback, the filter selection doesn’t hold when switching between tracks with different sample rates and bit depth. It’s incredibly frustrating and can seriously impact the listening experience for those who prefer it. It’s troubling that dCS hasn’t resolved this issue, and Lina owners are eagerly waiting for an update - ideally to version 2.0 with the new mappers, as a consolation more than anything at this point.
Oh…so I’m not crazy😆
In all seriousness I have this problem with my Rossini - and have had it during the past 3 years of ownership. It is not only with filter 2 but with others as well.
Do other Rossini owners encounter the same problem?
I am going to have to try that out.
UPDATE: This is indeed an intriguing settings combo. Quite pleasing. Will need to do some long-term comparisons. Have you tried this with Roon upsampling to 128?
Wow, that’s fantastic news, @PaleRider! I’m thrilled to hear that the settings are positively impacting what you’re hearing, especially with your higher-level Rossini system. It’s even more exciting that this validates what I’ve been listening to.
While I tried DSD128 with Roon, albeit briefly. I recall finding it thinner sounding, but it will take more thorough listening and comparisons to make a definitive conclusion.
Your update is intriguing, and I’m excited to try this setting combo for myself. Again, thanks for sharing your experience, and keep me updated on any further discoveries you make!
Vivaldi, but otherwise all good. I plan to listen for several days with this setting before returning to DXD. We’ll see how it goes.
Oh, @glevethan, you’re definitely not crazy! In fact, I think all of us audio enthusiasts have had moments where we question our sanity because of some pesky audio gremlins.
I completely understand where you’re coming from, and I’m sorry to hear you’ve been dealing with this issue with your Rossini for a long time. The problem is maddening and frankly unacceptable. I hope dCS has a solution soon and adds some extra features to compensate for it too. Have you tried reaching out to support? I think this problem is deeper and more widespread than even other owners or I realize.
Just know you’re not alone in this!
@PaleRider It’s cool that you’re planning to test out the new settings on your audio gear for a few days before switching back to DXD. That’s a good way to figure out if the changes are making a positive difference in your listening experience.
And apologies! My bad for mixing up the Vivaldi with the Rossini. Not quite the same device! That detail only further strengthens my belief in the upsampling pipeline’s potential. It also emphasizes the fact that dCS still has room for improvement in their PCM to DSD conversion algorithms. In fact, it seems that Roon may even perform as well as, if not better than dCS in this regard. With that said, dCS should continue to invest in the development and refinement of their algorithms to remain at the forefront of the high-end audio industry.
Please, no apologies! With all the posts flying back & forth here, it’s easy to lose track. I agree with you there is much potential for further improvement here. I did take a quick run at upsampling at 64/128/256 with the MSB. Shows some promise as well, though I thought I might have heard some indications that it might be recording-specific. That will take some time to figure out.
Hey @PaleRider, your additional testing with my little DSD upsampling trick looks promising! It’s curious to hear that it might be recording-specific, which hopefully could mean it’s on par with or even better than standard algorithms. And knowing MSB, they probably have even more advanced tech up their sleeves. By the way, I’m digging your MSB setup! Which model are you running?
I have the Select II and the Universal Transport. They’re in my headphones system rack.
Wow! It Sounds like you’ve got some pretty sweet gear. I’ve always heard great things about MSB and its high-end audio equipment. It’s cool to see that even their gear still show potential for filter-specific improvements.
I’ve been checking out the MSB Discrete, and it definitely seems like a serious piece of kit. I’ve heard that it can really deliver when it comes to sound quality. Maybe someday I’ll have the chance to check it out for myself.
Actually, it’s the other way around; the increasing out-out-band noise from DSD noise-shaping causes the increasing jitter (proportional to noise, inversely proportional to SNR). Which is what that Graph 2 on HiFINew’s measurement is also showing
I’ve tried off-board upsampling in the past, albeit with HQP, I’m not a fan, I found my Vivaldi Upsampler FPGAs do a better job it, at least sonically.
By the way, if you weren’t aware, dCS upsamplers have been doing PCM-to-DSD upsampling for nearly 30 years! First with the dCS 972 introduced in 1997. I dare say, when it comes to DSD, along with probably Meitner and Playback Design (and not many others), dCS knows what they’re doing 
Ahh, that it doesn’t memorise the selected rate/filter association. No doubt it’ll get fixed soon
Yes, I had negative experience with HQP also. But I am going to ride this experiment out for a few days before deciding.