I’ve finally got around to reconfiguring my network so that I can see if the cause of my occasional music-sounds-like-it’s-a-chipmunks-tribute-band (i.e. it plays fast) is my mesh WiFi (eero), or the etherRegen.
The Bartok now has a much more direct connection to the outside world: Modem > Cisco 2960 > Bartok (ethernet)
Whereas the rest of my network is still on the eero network: Modem > Cisco 2960 > eero > everything else (Roon Nucleus, NAS etc.)
It might be that the eeros could somehow still prove problematic, but since I’ve removed the etherRegen also, I figure that we’re at least learning SOMETHING from this exercise…
The problem I now have is that nothing will see the Bartok on the network. I assume that’s because both Roon Remote and dCS Mosaic are on the WiFi, whereas the Bartok is happily connected to the Internet, but not to the local network/me.
Does anyone have any ideas? Is this a subnet issue, perhaps? Neither the Bartok nor the 2960 switch have been set up in any kind of clever custom way.
Ben, thats most likely exactly whats going on - your Mosaic and Roon Remote can’t “see” your Bartok because they’re on a separate WiFi subnet on your Eero - they need to be on the same broadcast subnet for device/service discovery.
The simplest way to fix this would be to reconfigure your eepro into Bridge mode.
I’ll try to work out what the downsides to that might be in the meantime.
Really hoping the eeros can stay in their original/standard config for me, as the only downside is that it might be them responsible for the Chipmunks I get occasionally. For everything else, I LOVE them. They’ve made it so easy to have bits and pieces distributed around the house (Nucleus here, NAS there, DAC over there etc.), with the noisy stuff safely sequestered away in spare rooms.
Not generally a good idea to have your Roon Nucleus and NAS connected over WiFi to your Bartok. Even if you resolve the subnet/broadcast address space issues, it’s bound to lead to all sorts of problem over the long run. Ideally, they should all just connect via Ethernet cables to your Cisco switch.
The only thing that hasn’t been absolutely perfect for me is that maybe once a month the Bartók decides to play some tracks at double speed, and eventually freeze. A power cycle fixes it. But I’m not even certain that it’s the eeros that are the problem! Today’s troublesome reconfiguration is entirely to eliminate some possibilities — I’m a happy camper otherwise. Could be that new software/firmware for something fixes things and it never happens again…
I read one post today (the post was old, I just read it today) from @Andrew about the eeros being one of the only good mesh ones, but maybe he just didn’t use them long enough
@all2ofme
i have been using eero pro earlier and eero pro 6 now for last 2 years.
dcs was on one eero pro and router/nucleus on another eero pro in the next room
always seamless and never had a single network glitch or issue.
Redbook tracks generally should be just fine, but local highres tracks (like DXD) off your NAS to Roon and then onto the Bartok could start to demonstrate issues.
Not so much because of the raw bandwidth required - even DXD is still only a fraction of what you can get with say .ac or .ax for example - but from problems with packets getting queued behind metadata over the air interface, and “round-tripping” from NAS to Roon Core to Bartok.
Packets delivered over the air interface suffer from significant jitter because of the queuing, and that could affect Roon (RAAT’s) synchronisation/timing. Once you hit issues, Roon support will advise you to hard-wire your Roon Core to your DAC’s network.
Sounds like I need to re-work my system a bit. I’d love a bit of advice if anyone is so inclined.
At the moment almost everything hangs off a string of gear from IsoTek, with one shared ground. The IsoTek kit has been good, but I’ll likely move to a balanced system in a year or so.
I’ve tried to keep things that might be noisy as separate as possible.
Supplying power (out of one wall socket) are an IsoTek Syncro>Titan>Gemini. They keep the lights on for:
Bartok
Pass XA-60.8 mono-block
Pass XA-60.8 mono-block
Keces P8
Allegri Reference preamp (12VDC)
Gigafoil filter (5VDC, over USB)
Roon Nucleus+ (19VDC) OR Eero Pro (9VDC)
On separate wall sockets are:
Netgear modem
Cisco 2960 switch
Q1: Should I be trying to move the switch and modem to the same ground as the rest of the system, or is keeping their grubby selves separate a better idea?
Q2: Is the following a sensible order for my network-connected pieces, so that I don’t get any Roon hiccups over WiFi and can control both the Nucleus and the Bartok with my Roon Remote? (The Eero and the switch would both be on the same subnet, and as far as I can tell that’d mean that I wouldn’t need to bridge the Eero Pro.)
Netgear modem
Eero Pro
Cisco 2960 switch
Roon Nucleus
Gigafoil
dCS Bartok
Q3: Would the Eero Pro or the Nucleus be the better choice for a connection on the Keces P8? Or should it not make a jot of difference if neither of them are on the Bartok’s end of the Gigafoil?
It’s a shame that moving the Nucleus+ out of the TV, NAS etc. room means I won’t have it on the UPS I set up in there. The power supply here in the mountains is atrocious, and the idea of hard disks having to endure the same flickering that our lightbulbs do is not a pleasant one. (This is why I set up the Nucleus in that room in the first place, though perhaps the SSD that I’ve put into it won’t be quite as harmed as a spinning disk would be.)
Definitely not a good idea. Both of those will have noisy switching PSUs (unless you’ve replaced them). Keep them on a separate mains line if you can.
Technically, that should work, but it’s likely you’ve got double-NAT going on between your Netgear and the Eero Pro? Shouldn’t really be a problem, but it could have potentially adverse effects on things like firmware upgrades to servers on the 'net, and some other applications might break.
Instead, I’d recommend the following ;
Netgear Modem —> Cisco Switch —> Roon Nucleus
—> Gigafoil —> Bartok
—> Eero Pro —> WiFi to client devices
The Netgear Modem; becomes the main Internet Router/NAT/DHCP server - all IP address are issued and managed from that single point
Cisco switch; remains in its pure layer 2 Ethernet only function
Eero Pro; Re-configured to be a WiFi Bridge - no NAT, no DHCP. Multicast traffic will have no issue traversing the WiFi network, so Mosaic Control and Roon Remote will work just fine.
Woot! I’ll have to re-read this tomorrow when I’ve not been comparing alcoholic beverages (rather than preamps), but this seems like just what I was after — thank you!
Query in the meantime…would my idea to go from modem to Eero Pro not be one of the most common setups for an Eero system? And if that led to a problem with double-NAT(itudinality) would that not be something that most Eero users would have to solve?
Anup — apologies on the lack of clarity re: “P8 connection”. I was asking whether the Eero Pro or the Nucleus would be a better candidate for some clean power from the Keces P8. @PaleRider votes Nucleus. Can imagine why, though wonder how far I should take this. Would it be better to have BOTH on an LPS? (I don’t want to vanish into Audiophilestyle.com levels of “fun” for no reason, though.)
You’re not wrong, thats what most people do. But it really should depend on the Modem in question - if it’s a relatively dumb modem to the ‘net, then yes, using the Eero Pro as the main Internet Router/DHCP Server/NAT point makes sense. It simplifies IP subnet addressing since both the WiFi clients and hardwired clients off the Eero should have the same subnet etc. Plus the WiFi Router vendors want their device to be the the centre of your home network so it’s generally the default configuration of most WiFi Router like Eero Pro. All reasons why most people do it that way.
However, if you’e got a proper Netgear Modem thats a full blown Router, then use it for what it’s meant to be, rather than front-ending it with yet another Router. Upsides include better performance off the ‘net directly to your Roon Core & Bartok, and generally better stability/reliability when you’re using Streaming services - WiFi Routers generally have pretty poor packet throughput performance. The only downside is having to reconfigure your WiFi Router to be a Wireless Bridge for your wireless clients (which shouldn’t be a performance priority anyway)
Agreed with Greg, I definitely wouldn’t bother with an LPS for the Eero Pro (despite what you might read on Audiophilestyle )
I had left out some vital info again, Anup. Sorrrrrrry. My modem is just a modem. It’s a Netgear CM600.
As far as I can tell that means I need to use the Eero as the Router/DHCP Server/NAT point. (Or replace the CM600 with a combo modem/router.)
So I’d be back at:
Netgear CM600 —> Eero Pro (not in bridge mode) —> Cisco switch
And then wired from the Cisco switch:
Roon Nucleus
Gigafoil
dCS Bartok
Would you expect all the subnet addressing to wired clients (off the Cisco switch) and wireless clients (off the Eero…and its mesh slaves) to be ok that way? Or would you think that there’d be some clever config required on the Eeros or the switch?
I guess I could just try it, but given the chance to ask an expert…it’s always so much more effective to bug that helpful expert. More social, too! Hoping you’ll put up with me.
There are WiFi Routers out there with default configurations that have different subnets for WiFi versus it’s local Ethernet ports, especially Enterprise class machines, the Eero is not one of those.
