Do dCS dacs benefit from a music server?

Audio Systems
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Good morning Pete

You are absolutely right. I often get that Upgraditis itch, and quite often get it wrong! (But not in the case of my Bartók and fantastic Vitus SIA-025. Looking at “Showing off you dCS Setup”, many forum regulars, from time to time, get that Upgraditis itch.:grinning_face:

I have just read @AndrewS very helpful, in-depth reply to me. Some of his comments reflect some of what you say.

As I said, I strive to get the best possible SQ and squeeze the most out of a recording as I can, within constraints of my budget. However, there are so many other factors to consider in trying to achieve this goal. It could mean 6 or more boxes, Speakers that may sound okay, but which don’t appeal aesthetically (I do have to consider the Mrs here :wink:). Product UI. Let’s be fair, some product UI are not very user friendly at all.

So what do I want? I want a box that has a 2TB SSD, that will ‘Serve’ my ripped CD, FLAC files, and purchased 24/96/192 FLAC files, to my Bartók Apex.

Before anyone shouts NUC or NAS, I have tried a NAS and a Roon Nucleus previously. As you Know Pete, my knowledge on electronics is limited, but Alan Ainsley (Melco) did advise me, “Even if you don’t buy a Melco, to reduce system noise, stay away from NAS drives” and Mac Minis”. I’m sure there are many that may disagree with that advice?

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System noise could mean lots of different things and I’m sure Mr Ainsley had one or more specific types in mind. I’ve listed some above that are absolutely legitimate and can affect sound quality by known mechanisms and one that can’t. However without more specifics ”system noise” becomes a bit of a general purpose audio bogey man.

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Hi Andrew, I was not aware of that.:grinning_face:

Thank you so much for your very helpful, in-depth reply. I have also read and found most interesting, your reply to Lee. Our @Phil also makes some very good points.

I wouldn’t say that I’m completely IT-illiterate, but my knowledge of electronics and 1s and 0s is limited and could be placed on the back of a postage stamp!:grinning_face: For me, it all started in 2010. I got myself a Qnap NAS and a noisy WD HDD, I surprised myself as I actually managed to set it up, using MinimServer. However, trying to set up Minim aged me and made my hair fall out!:grinning_face: I have used MinimServer since, (on the Melco) and must say it’s more user friendly now days).

I progressed to a Roon Nucleus and replaced my Naim NDX 2 Streamer with a Bartók Apex.:+1: But in May Last year the Nucleus died on me, which took me down the Melco route. Prior to this purchase, I had endless communication with Melco’s UK distributor and Customer Service main man. He advised me to stay away from NUCs, NAS drives and Mac Mini’s purely because of system noise, probably referring to EMI and mains noise. Cut a long story short, I ended up with a Melco (Now DELA) N1-38. For reasons I won’t mention, the Melco was gone in four months.

Since then…I now have a lovely Vitus SIA-025, Integrated Amp and a new Quadrasphire X Reference rack.

Please could you expand on that Andrew. (In layman’s term) The reason I ask, is that 3rd party Streamer/Servers start at around £1000 to £20,000 plus.

I do in fact have my eyes on a particular brand of Server, who recommend the direct connection to a DAC, via their new Phoenix USB Board. I won’t go in to that here, perhaps on a separate post.

I think much of it is down to one’s ears. Often we hear differently, which then affects our choice of various products.

Please could you clarify, if you are using the Qnap NAS or the ASUS NUC, or both?

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I’ll try. TCP/IP, the network protocol used by the network connection, guarantees that all your audio samples are delivered successfully from your hard disk to your DAC and that their contents are unaltered (which is easily proved by just comparing the file that arrives at the end of the chain with the one that left at the beginning). They are identical.

In your network cable the four twisted signal pairs are terminated at each end in transformers which block any noise from traveling along them. Only the shield has a galvanic connection with both your switch and your DAC which could potentially transmit noise between them, which is why we recommend using an unshielded cable for the last, hopefully short, network hop to your DAC.

There is no other way that “system noise” can be transmitted along your network cable. Per my previous post, noise can be transmitted through the ether in the form of RFI, through the ring main from one power supply to another, from one chassis to another through vibration etc. but not along an (unshielded) network cable.

Both. My music is stored on the NAS and I run MinimServer and Roon Server on the NUC (which has no local music storage).

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125

I use a NAS for storage, no fancy apps or whatever, my streaming playback software just knows where to look for all my locally stored music library as I pointed it there once…

My NAS sits in my study around 5m direct and 8m cable length away. It whirrs audibly but quietly when coming out of sleep mode but this is not a distraction even when in the study never mind when listening to music. If I used a streamer-server which included storage and sat in the same rack as the hifi then sure, acoustic noise might be an issue in quieter passages, but I’m not sure I know of anyone who sits their NAS next to their hifi. I’m very happy with my setup of some 15 years or so and, apart from updating to a later model a couple of years ago, I’ve never felt any need to change it and I certainly wouldn’t expect any sound quality improvements from doing so.

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Hi Nigel

Thanks for that info. What software do you use on your NAS?

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I just use the standard Synology control suite. I don’t use anything on the NAS to “serve” music to the streamer in a sort of Push way, the (Innuos, as it happens) streamer just Pulls what it needs. Not a particularly technical description, I know, but my way of saying I don’t run anything on the NAS which is specifically about getting music stored on it to the streamer. I don’t use Roon etc, just the Innuos Sense app (on my iPad) which I like and which does everything I want it to do.

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Thank you @AndrewS That was a great explanation!

I have used both Roon Core and MinimServer. It is often suggested that Minim SQ is slightly superior than Roon? Do you have a preference?

I recently purchased a BlueJeans unshielded cable.:+1:

Thanks for your kind advice Andrew.

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Thanks for that Nigel.

Innuos is on my list​:thinking:

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I have used Innuos streamers for many years. I have a network connection to my Rossini Apex too and really really should do a definitive comparison for sound quality. I now know, courtesy of Community colleagues and subsequently personal experience, that I can use my Sense app to control playback of the Rossini directly, so at least the ease of use/familiarity of the user interface becomes a non-thing.

PS. I use a Pulsar.

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Yes, I have a preference for Roon for a few reasons, principal among which is that I use Digital Room Correction (DRC) and my FIR filter can be neatly installed in the Roon Server so I don’t need an additional component. I also love Roon’s enriched metadata and the fact that it supports all the audio endpoints in my house. And having been a user since its launch it is a UI I know well. But not for reasons of sound quality.

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I looked at the Pulsar, but they’ve been discontinued in favour of the Stream series. Don’t know how they’d compare? I was looking at Zen NG with the optional upgraded USB board, which they state, is the better connection over LAN?

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For this reason, since the beginning of my streaming days in 2011 (starting with a Linn Klimax DS), I have always run MinimServer on a downstairs kitchen iMac with ripped files stored on an external hard drive connected to said iMac.

I never felt the need for anything else

As always, your mileage may vary

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Another vote for MinimServer. In my case it runs on a Synology NAS, where my music resides. With MinimServer you can very flexibly configure the way you want to see the browsing tree in Mosaic. Other customizations are possible, but not really needed, the defaults work well.

There is a MinimServer forum. Simon, the developer of MinimServer is incredibly helpful.

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For all who use MinimServer and Mosaic, try the JPlay ios app. For me an eye(ear)opener. I use it with an Aurender N50 and Vivaldi apex dac.

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Morning Ruud

Is your stored music on the Aurender N50, and does it have it’s own Server software?

Thanks

David

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I have my music on a homemade fanless PC AND on the Aurender itself. This is mainly for comparison purposes. I have Roon and MiniumServer installed on the PC. It took a while for the Aurender to become RoonReady. Just before that, the UPnP option became available on the N50. So I started testing the JPlay iOS app. Honestly, just to try it out initially. MiniumServer uses the music files on the PC, as they recommend. When I select the files on the N50, it works fine; I don’t hear any difference there either.

I am/was a Roon user, but the N50 simply sounds better with their own Conductor app. While that’s nice for adjusting settings, it’s not for choosing/searching music. The JPlay iOS app isn’t Roon-ready in terms of usability, but it comes very close, and what’s even better, it sounds better to me than the Aurender app.

So now, for serious listening, I use:
MininServer > JPlay ios app > Aurender N50 > Vivaldi Apex DAC > PassLabs 250.8 power amp > KEF Blade One. All Shunyata cables.
Result: It’s like the musicians are right there in my room—Fantastic!
The JPlay ios app provided the final push towards more depth, detail and musical experience.

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Ruud, in fact, being UPnP protocol compliant, there’s literally nothing that JPlay can do to change the sound quality of UPnP Streamed music to dCS platforms.

The dCS Guide to Streaming provides some clear views on this;

Streaming music from Mosaic, Mosaic ACTUS, Roon, JPLAY, Audirvāna, or via TIDAL Connect or Qobuz Connect will all result in the same sound quality from the same streaming service.

Add to that, I believe JPlay does not supports gapless playback on dCS either.

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Correct. At least if there is a gapless setting I can’t find it.

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…but I concur with @ruudvde that JPLAY is really nice from a usability perspective.