I contemplating whether I need a preamp or not. I will only use qubuz direct and no other sources. Can I use the Vivaldi or for that matter the verese directly into my amps and use the volume control on the dcs? Is there any downside? I would think the more direct the path the better?
Yes, you can. I don’t think there are any downsides if you don’t use any other non-digital sources. Other than that using a preamp or not is pure personal preference.
Just a comment. I, too, used to connect my Rossini directly to the power amp, but adding a preamplifier significantly improved the overall quality.
Nick
As many have noted above yes you can and the dCS white papers are a great resource. I run direct into my amp and it works for me. Sweet spot is to keep the volume between -20 and 0dB on either the 2V or 6V setting.
Both Vivaldi and Varese offer excellent direct connection and control to a power amp. However, although direct connection may offer the least compromised sonics, whether that is the most enjoyable experience for you will depend on your preferences and the rest of your system.
I have tried direct connected of all of the dCS systems that I have owned since 1999 ( though I must still get round to trying my Vivaldi Apex). So far I have found direct connection sonically excellent but as a musical experience a little sterile. I am saying this as it is best to try both solutions first to find which you prefer on a practical rather than a theoretic basis, Of course any pre-amp better be a good 'un 
I even sold my ARC Ref 6SE and now run the Vivaldi Apex DAC directly into an ARC Ref 160S power amp, driving TAD E1TX speakers.
As been said already, putting any pre amp in will alter the sound to some degree, the thing is you might like what it does or not. I have found it’s how you amp sounds when running directly that makes or breaks it as some amps just sound lean without a pre amp and some are fine. You just have to get it right for yourself as there’s many combos to try.
But if you want that fully true dCS sound then running no pre amp, just as dCS themselves do is really the only way, but in reality you just need to do what’s right for you. But starting from scratch and only one source i 100% wouldn’t have a pre amp in the system as its totally not needed with the current dCS range, plus the money saved could be spent elsewhere.
My wife who has ears of an Angel likens the direct sound on my vivaldi reminds her of a copy machine perfect copy but not musical. It sounded pretty good to me, but she is the ear expert here. We keep the preamp in the mix, which is fine for the gearhead here(me).
Hi
I ran a survey on this platform a year or so ago and the result of those who responded (which was reasonably high) was 40% ran direct, i.e. with no pre-amp. You can find it if you search.
Adjusted for those who also have analog components and therefore “need” a pre-amp, I suspect the percentage would be greater than 50%.
So… Opinions are relatively evenly split on this matter
Cheers,
R
I think you’re spot on RG.
Using a preamp is completely wrong and yet can be completely right.
I can explain with a pretty watertight argument why a preamp can’t make anything better (given that the source component contains a competent output stage, which our DACs do), only different. And yet many people, with good ears (like Mike’s wife, loved that) prefer it. And why do we do this if not to experience the sound we prefer?
I suppose another way of putting it is objectively correct vs subjectively correct. Neither is more correct than the other. Whatever works for you.
Or, as we say here in Sweden ”people’s tastes, like their bottoms are split down the middle”.
Like others have said here in this thread and elsewhere in the forum, it comes down to personal preference. I’ve used my Bartok with and without a preamp and prefer without a pre.
My previous amp was the Benchmark AHB2 - a fantastic amp with no objective faults when used within its power envelope. Going direct however, it could, at times, sound just a tad too literal for my taste - even occasionally lean if the recording wasn’t great.
I looked at adding a tube pre, but wound up switching my amp to an Accuphase P4600. It has much in common with the Benchmark, variable gain, very low distortion, dead silent et al., but it is a little warmer sounding with a bit more flesh in the mid bass region.
However if i could find (and afford) a truly transparent pre amp with a great phono stage, mono switch, tone controls and a loudness compensation… well…
From my experience, I suggest adding a preamp is a matter of taste. I used BartĂłk and BartĂłk Apex and am now using Rossini Apex. My recent amps were Pass X600 and now Soulution 511 stereo amp. In both cases, I added Pass XP-32 and Soulution 725, which commonly added more body to the sound. Technically, I agree the pure signal may be degraded by adding an extra preamp, but to my ears, it was unnoticeable and the added body of the preamp was clearly noticeable. It may simply be a matter of whether the added/colored sound from the preamp is up to your taste.
I wouldn’t talk about coloration.
A transparent preamplifier, like the Soulution 727, adds no coloration.
Leaving the dCS volume at 100% and adjusting the volume via the preamplifier yields better performance, especially at low volumes.
The dynamic remains intact.
That’s just my opinion, of course.
Nick
Simon’s right though, objectively speaking that is.
If you look at Stereophile’s measurements of the Vivaldi versus the Soulution 727, the 727’s output has almost 20dB higher 2nd & 3rd order harmonics compared to the Vivaldi.
Actual audibility at those levels aside, the 727 will add some “body” to the sound that isn’t actually on the source material.
That may of course be a subjective preference.
Thanks, that’s very interesting.
Perhaps I didn’t express myself clearly; what I mean is that by keeping the DAC volume at 0 dB—with a 6-volt output—the dynamics and overall quality seem better to me, even when the preamplifier is set to a low volume.
I tested this with my Rossini, connecting it both directly to the power amp and through the preamplifier. It’s all subjective, of course.
Nick
Every pre amp made will add something, it has to, you can’t have something in the single path that won’t add something, even more so if that something has power going into it
Interesting. It’s a shame (from this perspective) that in Stereophile’s review of Varèse they syndicated the lab report from Hifi News and Paul Miller measures slightly differently, so we may never have a set of independent distortion measurements that are directly comparable.
The measurements of the Soulution 727 are more-or-less exactly what I would expect. The noise floor is extremely low, lower than the Vivaldi (which of course has an unavoidable amount of RFI-generating digital processing going on inside the chassis), but the low order distortion components are higher. I would say it is subjectively one of the most transparent preamps I have ever heard, it leaves a fingerprint but it is an extremely light one. And I think we are all in agreement that some listeners like that fingerprint and feel it improves or reinforces certain musical elements.
Well, at least I felt a conceivable difference in sound with and without my Soulution 725 between the Rossini Apex and the Soulution 511 stereo amp. I don’t care what others say about why the change in sound occurs or what the measurements are relative to the original signals. It’s more like listening to music in different concert halls, and as a hobbyist, I simply like the sound with the 725 added. I also respect that others prefer systems without a preamp, as this is a matter of personal preference.
Exactly. Such a shame. And now with JA1 retired, I fear we’ll never see that level of detail measurement ever again 
Yes, but the quantum is small, maybe 5dB? at those kinds of depths.
The HF intermodulation spectrum is also interesting. Granted it’s maybe not a fair comparison given the Vivaldi DAC doesn’t have an analog input stage, but, even pre-Apex, the 727 (2023) at almost twice it’s price can’t match the Vivaldi DAC (2012) 