Perhaps the $9,000 USD price is the standard price of the APEX upgrade for Bartok. Again, with shipping and sales tax, for some, like me, this comes closer to $11,000. Newer owners get a “break” to upgrade to APEX for less money. Same device, same upgrade, less money.
But this “break” is clearly becoming the news about the Bartok APEX upgrade. The $9,000 kerfuffle. The simple fact is the APEX upgrade for older Bartok owners is a very high percentage of the original purchase price. It might and probably does sound fantastic, but it remains very difficult value question to answer. Should I invest nearly $11,000 into a $15,000 device.
It makes one feel like you’re being asked to subsidize newer owners. I’m well aware I paid less for my Bartok than some others, but that is nothing more than the date I bought it. It’s still the same Bartok and the same APEX upgrade. Nothing else is different. But you pay more, for no other reason other than you bought yours before they bought theirs.
Imagine Tesla selling the same self driving capabilities at different prices to customers based on their EV purchase date.
This tiered pricing construct is clearly very specific to the extraordinary times we’re in, with the severe supply chain constraints causing significant somewhat artificial price increases, and crippling inflation.
I don’t recall dCS ever having tiered pricing for hardware upgrades, at least not in the last 20 years I’ve owned dCS kit, it’s always been a flat MSRP, and privately negotiated dealer discount at point of sales.
There was no tiered pricing for Rossini or Vivaldi Apex, just Bartok.
To be honest, with the price difference you are mentioning I would probably have bought a new Bartok Apex or stayed happy with second hand non Apex Bartok.
In my case there appears to be NO tiered pricing. I was told that I was eligible to upgrade at one price by march 7th and after that the cost is MSRP - which is almost double.
So essentially a promo and thereafter MSRP is the was I interpret the offer. I took the ‘promo’ price.
This sounds right to me. That suggests a value retention of approximately 70%, and that is really quite good for used/several-years-old, no matter how good its condition, considering all the amazing choices out there. FWIW, I rarely attempt to sell my used gear for more than 65%. I’d prefer to strike a fair deal right up front. After all, it’s used.
My wife and I had an excellent 3 way demo yesterday at our dealer comparing original Bartok, Bartok Apex and Rossini Apex. We Played music firstly on Bartok followed by the same music on Bartok Apex and then again on the Rossini Apex. We did this many times with our favouite and well known music. It took all of 10 seconds to hear what all you Rossini and Vivaldi owners have been saying about your Apex upgrades.
For the Bartok this Apex upgrade is a major uplift in sound quality. It is not subtle and is easy to hear the significant improvement, so much so it did really take us by surprise. It is so much more significant than the Bartok 2.0 software upgrade last year. We are no hi-fi reviewers but the music just seemed to flow so much better and everything just seemed so much more refined.
Comparing Bartok Apex to Rossini Apex there is again an uplift in sound quality with the Rossini as you would probably expect ( this was the first time we had heard a Rossini). Perhaps not so great as the difference between Bartok and Bartok Apex but big enough that all you Rossini owners should sleep easy knowing there is still a worthwhile difference between the 2 products and your extra expense on the Rossini was worthwhile.
We then added a Lina clock to each of the 3 in turn ( the dealers Rossini clock was with a customer for a home demo). Again interesting, sometimes we thought it better, sometimes could hear little difference, always subtle. We would need to evaluate a clock upgrade at home for a much longer period of using it then taking it out of the system to see if it was missed.
We were early Bartok buyers and won’t join the discussion on whether Apex is worth the money or not or about the pricing in different markets. It is what it is and in the UK that means £7.5K. Everyone will have their own opinion which I totally respect.
What to do next ? Don’t really know at the moment. I guess our aim is to get to Rossini Apex levels at some point or maybe wait X number of years for dCS’s Rossini replacement (which will probably come sometime in the distant future) we’re not really in a hurry. If we wait, maybe Apex our Bartok for now and enjoy that for the next number of years. The indecision is mainly because for us none of the 3 machines can yet compare with our turntable and we still buy LP’s whenever we can ( as well as some CD’s) so streaming is not our only source. If streaming was our only or preferred source we would definitely either Apex our Bartok or part-ex it for Rossini Apex.
If any of the Bartok owners out there are remotely interested in Apex we’d highly recommend you get a demo ASAP and we think you would be delighted. Of course Bartok hasn’t suddenly become a bad DAC just because Apex has turned up. Whatever you decide best wishes and enjoy. dCS you have done a great job.
David thank you for posting the observations. Absolutely in line with my expectations in how the 3 products perform, but great to get confirmation evidence.
As for the clock, I previously had a Puccini Player, and added the companion U-Clock about a year after buying the player. Similarly, I purchased a Rossini Clock about 4 months after buying a Bartok w/HA. While I could definitely appreciate the improvement pretty quickly after adding the clock in both scenarios, I found that turning the clock off while listening to good recordings after getting used to the performance boost the clock provided represented a significant drop-off in realism/presence, sound stage, etc. Definitely no going back to the system without the clock. I would also say that in my view, although the improvement Bartok 2.0 provided is different than what the clock adds, I found the impact of the Bartok upgrade to 2.0 to be of somewhat greater magnitude than the clock.
I’m inclined to agree that, for those paying the full cost of the upgrade, waiting a little while for used Rossini Apex machines to become available would make a lot of sense.
In the meantime, sticking with the Bartok doesn’t sound like a horrible place to be - it should still sound the same as it did before the announcement.
Good question. There’s a looming chip supply glut just now hitting the fabs (TSMC, Samsung, Intel, etc). So, chip prices will drop dramatically, and supply constrains will go away by late this year/early ’24.
However, whether those cost reductions will eventually make it to end-customers… your guess is as good as mine
Talking generally across the electronics sector (as opposed to specifically dCS), I think those decisions will hinge on whether vendors see demand weakening as a result of the higher prices.
I guess you are correct, respectful the theory. But it works well that way when the company has stock, or when they produce well ahead of the demand according to selling plans…For companies which produce on request/order, this does not work, they have no reasons to lower their prices…Less demand, in that case, means less production and not lower prices to decrease stock…So, for those who expect lower prices regarding dCS products…they should better have a look at the second hand market.
My retailler has made an offer. But I still have to have a proper listening before I take my décision. Apex version seems to fit very well with the Rossini or Vivaldi, but there is no evidence that the Bartok is fit enough to bloom with the apex board. I’ll figure that out next month…
…
…
