Yes…unrepentant and obstinately maintaining their position.
Spoke to North America Head of Sales. HQ. Delaware.
When I asked how many Bartoks were in the NA market he estimated it to be in the neighbourhood of 500. I countered that I suspect we will likely see 100 or more enter the used market in the very near future. Imagine what your Bartok will be worth at that point. Nice.
Warren - agree with you completely. There was zero doubt that the 3 tier pricing was direct from dCS based on what my dealer put in email regarding the APEX upgrade pricing. No other options.
Well, if it’s any consolation, I’m in fact in the same boat as I acquired my Bartok 4 years ago, and now contemplating whether to keep it as is, Apex upgrade, or even shift side ways 
Misery does, in some horrible way, like company but that’s not a boat we should be in. This to my earlier point, since deleted, that without the upgrade we face a sizeable devaluation in resale or trade value but to avoid this we are forced to pay a doubled cost.
Spectacular.
I disagree. The cost is the cost (for the Apex board). I think the issue is whether recent Bartok buyers get a break, and how that’s “funded” so to speak.
There is the first, lower, tier offered to recent purchasers. Was told by a dCS guy that it would be far easier and likely more profitable if this second tier was offered to all.
I would recommend that purchases made in the last six months be offered free (excepting shipping and some handling fee for the dealer, say, 1K). And then the second tier to all comers.
Sorry, that makes ZERO sense. We’re talking about a new piece of hardware (the Apex board) that cost real money to build. dCS is not a charity.
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This kind of policy has been offered by others in the past. Profits made in the aggregate. Good will in the marketplace.
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I agree with you that the multiple pricing tiers can be confusing. I think dCS has made this more confusing than necessary by trying to give a break to the folks who bought into dCS at higher price levels (an effort I think was in good faith and certainly makes more sense to me than the opposite position). But that inflation argument, yeah, I don’t think that’s a matter of “opinion.” Retail products rarely inflate in value unless made in sufficiently smaller quantities than the demand for them (whisky is a good example). Vintaged items, too. But audio appliances? Even before Apex, your Bartok wasn’t worth as much as you paid for it, and inflation doesn’t change that.
It is indeed a matter of opinion whether the Apex cost is worth it to any owner. And if I were in the same boat as you, or Warren, or Anup, I might think long and hard about that cost. It is a significant percentage of the initial outlay. And a lot would depend on whether Bartok was my primary listening DAC, and where I stood in the long-term pursuit of SQ. I would personally probably choose to see what I could get for my non-upgraded Bartok—even if painful—and combine that with the 9k upgrade cost, and start listening to boxes within my set budget. But only if I wanted out anyway. That’s the risk dCS has undertaken: that unhappy Bartok owners will start looking outside the lineup.
And while Vince is right that the current used market seems pretty flat—though his example was already five weeks on the market before Apex hit; not sure you can claim that’s dCS’s fault—that isn’t really surprising, but it doesn’t mean it will stay that way. A couple of glowing reviews of Apex, and it’s likely that the used Bartok market will stabilize around a price. In the meantime, did you love your Bartok before all this kerfuffle? Is music worse out of it since?
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That’a in the $18K - $19K USD range all in. Bartók at $10K + Apex.
I think the days of selling at $12K are over.
I don’t think it’s dCS’s fault. It’s a matter of what else is available now in these price ranges. It’s a fantastic time to be looking at DAC’s $12K and above.
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I will readily admit that this is precisely why I just bought my Bartók HDAC. The price plus Apex puts me at a good margin below new. No sales tax here in Oregon made it even more attractive.
It’s not my intention to brag, I am just trying to add to the conversation.
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Vince, sounds like you made a good move. Props!
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A bit confused here……the days of selling at 12K? Are you saying the resale value will be less than 12?
It already is. I paid $10,500 delivered for a 9 out of 10 unit.
Truth in advertising, I only buy used gear. I have for a very long time. I am patient, I look for 2 or 3 different component types at a time. When one shows up near what I have budgeted I attempt to negotiate in good faith. I am not a low baller.
For instance, while looking for the Bartók I was also looking for a VAC Signature Mk IIa SE Pre. The Bartók hit my radar first. Now I will wait on the VAC until after I upgrade to Apex. I am patient.
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I am glad for your great deal…kudos but it also illustrates the cannibalization of the Bartok market.
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In my experience, I think they will hold at $10K to $10.5K and sell at a good pace.
Looking at this from my perspective, $10.5 + $9K = $19.5K.
A new Bartók Apex is $22,950.
To me a used Bartók Apex (if it currently existed) would be approximately $3K or so below retail. In my case $3,400.
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as someone who just bought at these prices, you have done well but as an owner, not so happy about these prices. All the best to dCS
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I totally sympathize with you. If I bought an Apex three years ago, I would be grumpy too. Personally I would like to see six upgrade pricing groups:
Price 1: Less than 1 year
Price 2: 1 to 2 years
Price 3: Two to three years
Price 4: Three to five years
Price 5: After five years
Price 6: Used, same as Price 4