Hi everyone. I’ve just replaced my Roon Nucleus with an Antipodes K41 (server only). I’m streaming my local files with the Mosaic app via UPnP through the Minimserver K41. My question is whether I can do the same thing (i.e., use the K41 server) also while streaming Qobuz?
Thanks,
Franco
Hi Franco,
very cool- so do you hear an improvement vs Roon Nucleus?
Yes ( or probably ) or no depending upon how I reads your question.
The no part: Qobuz is not a UPnP service. It is your local file storage that is UPnP.
The yes part: I anticipate that Qobuz will be available to you via the Antipodes server. Whether it is or not is very easy to check.
I assume that Antiopodes is connected to your internet switch ( or router) via the red network RJ45 port . Vivaldi should be connected by network cable to the Antipodes Direct Stream RJ45 port. As you are already using Mosaic UPnP for local files it seems that there are no connection issues. All you need do is open Mosaic and select Qobuz from the menu, sign in with your password and (hopefully) away you go.
Hi there. Yes, very, very happy so far (still burning in).
what other server were on you radar Franco?
Hi Pete. Yes, the Antiopodes K41 is connected to my internet switch via the network RJ45 port. The dCS Vivaldi Upsampler is connected by network cable to the Antipodes Direct Stream RJ45 port as well as directly to the same switch (in order to receive software upgrades).
I am already using Mosaic UPnP for local files so there are no connection issues. I have selected Qobuz from the menu in the Mosaic app and logged in but I have the impression that, while doing so, I am using the dCS server and not the Antipodes K41. Is this not correct? If it is, is there a way that I can set the Antipodes K41 as my server and use the dCS Upsampler as a player only?
I have heard the Innuos and the Pink Faun only (both in my system).
I’ve chosen the Antipodes K41 because I loved the SQ improvement in my system and cost is reasonable.
In my system the Antipodes was slightly superior to the Innuos and the Pink Faun was way too expensive (plus the only way it sounded ok was via AES-EBU but I need that input for my transport).
With the Antipodes K41, local files playback is now finally on par with CD rebook playback from my Vivaldi Transport. I’m sure that this will improve with burn-in.
Sort of of although the dCS streamer board is not a server. Antipodes is the server and will be acting as a pass through for Qobuz.However I ( and others) have found ( albeit with other servers) that this can produce an improvement over some other routes. I do not know why but speculate that the characteristics of the server like low noise “conditions” the stream as it passes through. Reason aside, Try it and see.
The connections above mean that Antipodes is now our server. Are you asking if Upsampler can be used without upsampling ( just streaming from your server)? Yes it can ( how I use mine). Open Vivaldi control in Mosaic ( top left corner three lines). Select Device. Scroll down until you see Clone Mode. Select lock. Upsampler will then send files from the streaming board without any DSP alteration.
Yes but if you have a listening session with lots of tracks or it is your preferred mode I would select Lock ( which was advised by dCS way back before Vivaldi so Elgar/Purcell or Paganini.
Hey that’s odd, .I am sure it was “On” not “Lock “ when I last looked 
Thanks Pete. It’s now on LOCK and it was previously OFF. Seems to sound better.
Franco, if I’m not mistaken, the primary way you would be able to do that is via Roon Playback Method on the K41; so all local file playback and Streaming services would then flow through the K41’s hardware & software stack, over the network to your dCS Upsampler as a Roon RAAT endpoint.
That said, if the “Direct Stream” Ethernet port on the K41 is a bridged port, then technically when you connect your Upsampler’s Ethernet to that “Direct Streamer” port on the K41, all traffic is actually flowing through your Antipodes hardware and OS IP stack.
Antipode’s documentation is pretty opaque, so I can’t tell if that “Direct Stream” port is or can be configured as a bridge port (like how it can on the Melco platforms).
Hi Anup. Yes that’s correct and in fact I have set up the Antipdes K41 as my Roon Server.
The problem is that, even though I have a lifetime subscription to Roon, I have to admit that I don’t love how Roon kind of colors the sound, so I was looking for an alternative.
I’ll look into the direct stream budged port solution that you’ve mentioned. However, what turns me off a bit is that going that route would mean bypassing my Innuos Phoenix Net switch and NA Muon Pro filter, which I really like but pls let me know if you think that this is wrong.
Thanks,
Franco
Pete - I have often seen it written Vivaldi is a
”system“. If the Upsamplers sole purpose then becomes strictly passing an Ethernet signal, without doing any other job (upsampling), doesn’t that somewhat defeat its purpose in the “system”?
Taking it one step further how does the Vivaldi DAC perform on its own, without the Upsampler? Or would dCS say it does not achieve Vivaldi level performance without the Upsampler doing its “thing”?
Best
Gregg
Anup, I’ve tried and it’s a winner! So my current architecture is as follows:
Router (powered by a Plixir Elite PSU and grounded to an Entreq ground box) → Network Acoustics Muon Pro filter → Innuos Phoenix Net switch → Antipodes K41 → dCS Vivaldi Upsampler (via direct stream input)
While the Vivaldi Upsampler was originally contrived as an Upsampler only (in which role it would have been pretty redundant if only used in clone mode) it became, with the Upsampler Plus upgrade, the ”digital hub” of the Vivaldi system.
So as well as providing access to music via UPnP, Roon, Tidal and Spotify Connect etc it also provides useful additional functionality such as remote control of both music and settings via Mosaic, online firmware updates etc.
Putting all this functionality in the DAC (which would have been quite feasible in theory) would have degraded performance as this is all ”noisy” processing which unavoidably generates EMI.
The UPnP, streaming service and internet radio data are captured by a streaming board. In Vivaldi this board is situated in Upsampler. Without it you have no sound from DAC, upsampled or not, unless you use a third party streamer connected to DAC ( now that Network Bridge is no longer made) or a CD player. This is unlike Rossini,Bartok or Lina where the board is situated inside the DAC. This is partly why Vivaldi has to be regarded as a system.
I am a classical music listener and base my judgements on how close my audio system sounds compared to what I hear live a a concert hall. By this judgement ,whilst finding that upsampling has some merits, I am afraid it is unsatisfactory in others. I do not think that these matters are significant outside of classical music or to those who are not regular concert goers. However you have to have Vivaldi Upsampler, a third party streamer or a CD player/transport. Otherwise Vivaldi DAC is not being fed any data. There is really no" performance" from Vivaldi DAC on its own . It has to have data fed to it and whatever is feeding it will be an influence on the subjective outcome and that makes it difficult to separate out what you hear from Vivaldi DAC unless you have a second system with a comparative DAC using exactly the same sources. Not owning more than one audio system I cannot make such a comparison.
You could compare the sound of the DAC fed from the Transport with and without the Upsampler. I don’t have a transport at home but this is something I might try at the factory one day if I have a bit of spare time. At home my whole usage revolves around the Upsampler so it is a no-brainer for me.
I do remember Pete doing an A-B for me of clone mode on and off (it was a true double blind test - I didn’t even know what he was changing!). IIRC I was able to reliably tell the difference. One sounded ”rear hall” (DXD Upsampling) while the other sounded ”front hall” (Clone mode on). A bit ”horses for courses” but I preferred the latter.
Yes, its interesting how people hear the difference. It seems from recent postings that @Frankie67 is also preferring clone. I have also had contact from a professional classical musician friend and long time Paganini user (using clone mode) who was quite distressed hearing Rossini last month at a shop demonstration and learning that you have to have upsampling engaged. I won’t write what he said in this public forum but let’s leave it at lost sale.
Interesting comments.
So far, not utilizing upsampling mode, seems to appeal to classical music listeners (control group of 3 - Pete, Andrew, and Franco)
