Hello everyone. I’m considering to upgrade my Bartok and purchase a Rossini.
My dealer has proposed to give me an ex-demo Rossini unit which is a transport only (CD/SACD) at a convenient price (and I would trade in my Accuphase CD transport).
Questions:
Is the Rossini sole transport superior to the Rossini integrated player (also considering the fact that these would be separate units with separate power supply, etc.)?
Is the Rossini DAC only superior than the Bartok DAC? What about software?
I’m thinking that this could be potentially be advantageous since (i) the Rossini transport also offers SACD and (ii) I could replace in the future the Bartok with a Rossini DAC or even a Vivaldi DAC (if a new Vivaldi unit will be launched soon).
Rossini Transport ? It is fabulous and I love mine. A huge uplift ( to an unexpected degree) from the Paganini transport that preceded it.
It uses the new(ish) Denon/Marantz SACDM-3 transport mechanism . Better than the otherwise excellent one installed in Rossini Player I would think with, of course, SACD replay to a dCS DAC. Note though, it is HUGE and heavy. The disc tray also takes a moment to get used to as it the disc indentation which holds the CD/SACD is a very tight fit.
I think Rossini DAC should be thought more of as a sister model to Vivaldi rather than a ( big) step up from Bartok. The software is more sophisticated in Rossini and , like Vivaldi, has the ability to be run faster ( see the choice of Mapping ) which offers a huge improvement ( ask any of us who upgraded Vivaldi to Vivaldi 2) and is not available with Bartok.
Yes, your future plan to use it with a later upgrade to Rossini DAC or even Vivaldi/Vivaldi replacement makes sense.
If the ex-dem model is in good condition ( and hasn’t been run 24/7 to provide background music in the shop ) and the price is right then do it. I am mentioning the amount of shop use because optical pickup units are consumables ( hopefully long term though).
Remember to get a clock cable so you can slave it to Bartok set to Master Mode.
Thanks Pete. So - without taking into account the price variable - would you choose (i) Rossini Transport and then upgrade in the future the Bartok to a Rossini Dac (or superior model) or (ii) Rossini player replacing the Bartok? Thanks. Franco
The choice between Rossini Transport + Bartok (and future upgrade) v. Rossini Player is fundamentally Rossini now or later? The obvious answer would be Rossini now. The downside is if you have a reasonably large collection of SACDs. If SACDs are not important to you then buy the Rossini Player. If SACDs are an important factor then you would need the Rossini Transport .
If part of your decision is then also based around a future upgrade to Rossini or Vivaldi/its replacement then I think you have to decide how firm that commitment is and to plan when it will take place. If it is just a vague desire that may possibly become reality at some random point in the future should you luckily find that you have the finance then treat it as a daydream only for the time being.
I apologise for giving an ambiguous answer but you will see that it depends upon your personal circumstances which I am unaware of.
Thanks Pete. This dealer told me that there is no big difference between the SQ of Bartok dac and the Rossini dac in steaming music while the Rossini Transport is superior to the Rossini Player as a CD player. Is this correct?
Rossini is better than Bartok, period. Anyone who has experienced the change from using Map 2 ( the original ) to Map 1 or 3 with their either Rossini or Vivaldi should be aware of the material improvement that this alone brings irrespective of the other hardware and firmware advantages of those processors over Bartok. Map 1 or 3 are not available with Bartok.
Further whilst all of their products have superb sound, dCS have always ensured that there can be little doubt as to the sonic improvement to be enjoyed as you move rung by rung up the ladder of products.
So if your dealer thinks there is little difference in the sound between them I have no idea where his reference points are. Yes both are nearly identical if you simply put them in a generalised category of “very good sound”. However what constitutes " very good" is where the difference lies. Or maybe he only listens to Death Metal. Yep , little difference then ( I would imagine ).
I think that I go along with @all2ofme and @Ermos comments that the dealer is probably rather keen to move his stock Rossini Transport on.
The dealer said that separate units sound better than an integrated and that the Rossini transport sounds better than the Rossini player while playing cds. I understand that you guys don’t agree with his statement regarding comparability between Bartok and Rossini as dacs. The last element is that his option could give the possibility to upgrade to a Vivaldi dac or New Vivaldi dac without changing the cd transport. I’ll see what price he offers me. Thanks.
I would just remark on what I think is an important consideration. AFAIK there is no wordclock input on the Accuphase transport. Also no SACD replay in conjunction with a dCS processor ( if it is an Accuphase CD/SACD machine). So, for silver disc at least, this is not an optimum combination.
It’s up to you of course as I think that I have said all that I can on this subject.
Sorry Pete for the confusion. Choice is between (i) Rossini Transport + Bartok + Rossini Clock with option to upgrade DAC in the future or (ii) Rossini Player + Rossini Clock. In each case I would trade in my current Accuphase CD transport.
Thanks for the clarification. As I said earlier a major consideration is whether or not you have an existing collection of SACDs which you still wish to enjoy. If not then you only need think about CD. In that case the Rossini Player trumps the Rossini Transport+ Bartok because the Rossini DAC is better. I am assuming that you do not solely play discs. The advantages of the Rossini DAC section will be apparent with other media such as streaming. No matter how superior Bartok Transport may be compared to the Player’s transport ( which I emphasise is excellent anyway), its advantage is wholly limited to playing discs and it offers no benefit otherwise. So rationally it is a better choice only if CD/SACD is your main music source and if you think it will remain as such for the next few years.
Having upgraded from Bartok to Rossini DAC myself, I can vouch that there is a very audible improvement in sound quality and sheer enjoyment of music. How much of that is attributable to the new mappings vs other aspects I don’t know, and I’ve only ever used the units as streamers, not dacs for other sources.
I’ll say it again, when I was shopping I was comparing sound quality to my Wadia S7i.
Bartok: Winner, Wadia.
Rossini Player: Winner, Wadia
Rossini Player with Rossini Clock: Winner: Rossini Player with Rossini Clocki
If the clock wasn’t in the circuit, neither the Rossini nor Bartok had the depth of soundstage nor the proper transients on piano notes that have always been a Wadia Digimaster trademark.
Only the Rossini Player with Rossini Clock finally exceeded the quality of the Wadia.
I’ll never get the TAS review where the reviewer preferred the sound of the RP without the clock, unless the reviewer has been listening to non-Wadia DACs for so long he doesn’t realize that the “attack” of a piano note should never be somewhat metallic-sounding, it’s a felt hammer hitting a string.
Every Wadia since the X32 got that right, and it took the RP and RC for the dCS to get it right (at about 1.5x the 2012 MSRP of the Wadia S7i.)
Bill, have you considered that this is your opinion rather then a statement of fact ?
Others may well consider that, for them, other brands or equipment combinations " got it right" or were " winners". That, no doubt, includes the TAS reviewer.
I would be more impressed if you tempered your assertions with a humble " IMO".
(Wasn’t sure whether to post my recent (lengthy) waffle about my recent DAC and Clock comparisons to this thread or to a different one — Bartok with Rossini or Vivaldi clock? — since there was a bit of overlap. Chose the other one because this thread was more about Rossini decisions, not “Should I get the sensibly-sized clock or the silly clock?” decisions. But it could be of interest to some of you here too.)
I agree with @BillK that clocking makes a big difference, and also with @PAR that we all have different things that we listen for…and that it can be good to be careful that we don’t paint the world in absolute terms that can stifle the discussions that can make forums a nice place to hang out.
The problem I normally have is that in trying to couch my preferences in a way that makes it clear that they’re just that — MY preferences — I get long-winded. As the post I wrote five minutes ago showed quite clearly…
) and the price is right then do it. I am mentioning the amount of shop use because optical pickup units are consumables ( hopefully long term though).
).