XLR vs RCA ... and which cables are you using?

Far too many full-moons ago, with my first high end system, going from Lamp Cord, to Monster, then Kimber speaker cables was an enlightening process.

Recently, because my speaker cables developed an intermittent short, we grabbed those ancient Kimber’s ( I think they were 4-PR’s) a few weeks ago, to use burning-in a new pair of Soundlab Majestic 845 full-range electrostatic speakers. Whether those old Kimber’s were too lengthy, or simply damaged because of the 100’s of times they had been coiled, uncoiled and abused, they were much less than good.

Because of the L.C.R. values mentioned by Andrew, I happened across cables with specs appropriate for my stats. I bought them from Frank, of Signal Cable (http://www.signalcable.com/. I opted for his “most pricey” “Silver Resolution” pair. Beginning at $289 a pair, pricey they are, when compared to his lessor other two models. But they are pretty darn inexpensive in my book. So far, without comparing them to anything else and with the new speakers replacing a previous Soundlab pair, they’re sounding fantastic. When price is factored in…well, what’s not to like!?! The cables I compared them to only with memory, were Synergistic Research wires that approx.15 years ago, cost around $6k. I wouldn’t pay anything like that for speaker cables in 2008, let alone now. But after the deal was made for a used pair of CAT JL3 monoblocks, they were just thrown-in, probably because they were only 1M and they weren’t worth much in resale.

Cables are system dependent, much like everything matters in this hobby. For example, electrostatic speakers are obviously quite different from cones and domes. Disregarding other components in the chain, because one cable works on one speaker, one can’t infer they will do so on a different speaker, let alone speakers with different technologies. So, shopping for cables based on brands, while utilizing other’s results, may be better than throwing darts at a dart board littered with the names of cable companies, but I wonder how much. Nevertheless, we do need a place or two to being, don’t we?

For the direct connection between my Rossini and Atma-sphere MA-1 OTL amps, I’m using some XLR’s furnished by my amp manufacturer Ralph Karsten. Based on posts, my guess is they are a studio based cable like the aforementioned Canare or Mogami. As the Signal’s, my out-of-pocket was very minimal for Ralph’s preference. And as with both cables, I thought they would be good starting points for auditioning – i.e., if I found something more to my liking, no regrets on the funds already spent. I certainly won’t find anything for much less.

Speaking of Ralph Karsten, he has mentioned in forum posts, cable differences should be at worst, minimal, when connecting **properly designed balanced" components. He only designs balanced equipment, so that tends to confirm his contention. Not having auditioned different XLR’s with my present speaker and amp combo, I can’t confirm or deny. My intention is do some comparisons, so time will tell. But as I mentioned previously in this thread, cable auditioning is one of this hobby’s necessities that I dislike the most.

Because I recently moved from a Lampizator Golden Gate DAC to dCS, my next step, is to trial power cables on the Rossini. I know Shunyata will be one that will be in the mix. I’ve seen the mention of others, here and there. But if you have found a PC that just works on your dCS pieces and is a “giant killer” around or preferably below $1K, please advise.

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Blatant advert inappropriate for this forum; do we have a moderator?

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For what its worth my 10 pence worth.

System is (not worth a picture as its in a large garden room, and has been described as a sauna on a site that I wont naim)

Anyway

Vivaldi NWB and DAC
Roon Nuc, naim uniti core
Townshend Allegri ref
Mark Levinson No33h
Kef Ref 5

All strung together with Townshend Fractal Fi.

Intially I used balanced and the levinsons and Dac use them and I’ve always had balanced in various levinson based systems.

A little research told me that the Allegri asnt truely balanced, i’ve gone back rca rca all through.

Personally I have to say I prefer it.

And as an aside Greg you were right about never buying a cd again my Roon Library has expanded greatly via Qobuz…

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FWIW, I tried my Allegri Ref with RCA cables—for the same reasons: it’s not actually balanced in the circuitry—but discovered a hum that did not exist with the XLR. So, I returned the RCA cables and stuck with the XLR. My entire speaker system IC complement is Iconoclast OCC Gen 2 XLR. And I love it. I feel no need to experiment further.

I dont have a hum from the Allegri, but the Levinsons do, but only to themselves. Upsampler next, but not anytime soon.

I tried yesterday to put RCA Nanotec instead of my Acoustic Revive XLR. Interestingly, the volume level has become higher. How is this possible? I always thought that the level on XLR would be the same or higher than that of the RCA output.
My Bartok has identical XLR and RCA output gains.
Or is it something to do with my ATC SCA2 preamp?

I am unsure if your are talking about the balanced/RCA connection between Bartok and preamp or between preamp and power amp or both. However I assume that it is the former.

The SCA2 has a 13dB input sensitivity cut switch. Had you previously (deliberately of inadvertently) had this engaged? Unfortunately that cut switch works like most attenuators and negatively affects sound quality by squashing small dynamic changes.

Other than that the input and output sensitivity/levels on the SCA 2 are identical for single ended or balanced connections. So the answer seems to be that the RCA Nanotec cables may have lower resistance than the Acoustic Revive balanced ones hence for the same volume setting the sound is louder.

Hi Pete,

yes, I meant the connection between Bartok and SCA2 preamp. I use the Gain button only when I need to turn down the volume level, or late at night. I see that the input impedance of XLR and RCA preamp inputs is different. Can this somehow affect?

If my XLR cable has a higher impedance and it sounds quieter, does that mean my cable is worse? Or do I just need to turn volume knob up?

I will just mention that resistance and impedance are not really synonymous. However all cables have a mixture of both electrical and mechanical characteristics. Given that all are reasonable ( i.e. fit for purpose) including impedance or resistance then, in the current state of knowledge, there is no inherent objective ranking of one over another in this aspect except in specific circumstances (e.g. earlier Naim amplifiers requiring speaker cables with a higher impedance in order to achieve stability). Subjectively rankings may differ of course.

So you have two different cables which cause a different listening volume. That does not indicate that one is superior to the other and it is one reason why you have a volume control. Just turn it up for one of them if you find them equally satisfactory in other aspects of sound quality.

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so, I tried 5 RCA cables (harmonix, audio note, zaolla, tiglon, nanotec) and with all the volume is higher than with my XLR. It remains to find another XLR cable for test XLR vs XLR. Although from memory all my previous XLR played similarly to the current one…

Upd:
plugged my old Canare XLR, it’s as quiet as my Acoustic Revive XLR. It turns out that the XLR connection is quieter than RCA, regardless of the cables. Very strange…
Can the Bartok’s output gain on the RCA be higher than on XLR ? I set output to 2V in Mosaic…

No, output level is the same.

The SCA2 input impedance is different but sensitivity is the same for RCA ( phono) v. Balanced . The output impedance of the Bartok is, however, very low so I don’t think this is an issue.NB: I have a very early sample of the SCA2 which has many different specifications.

Until you test another XLR cable it currently just looks as if your Acoustic Revive XLR may have an unusually high resistance. They appear to provide no specifications on their website.

my SCA2 is from 2009 and with the phono board installed.

I have already tested XLR Canare and it is just as quieter than all 5 RCA cables connected to all RCA inputs on preamp. All my previous XLR cables (Siltech, RAL, Harmonix, Oyaide) were similar in volume level to the current Acoustic Revive XLR and Canare XLR. I have not used the RCA before, but Lampizator dac came to visit me and kind people lent me 5 RCA cables for the test, now I try all of them with my Bartok))
The difference between RCA and XLR is not at the “seemed” level, but more like 4v vs 2v :flushed:

Hello Pete,

I’m in the market for an XLR interconnect for my Bartok to connect it to my integrated amp and I found this very interesting post of yours.
Is this: sommer vintage the cable you were talking about in 2019?
Many thanks.
Michael

Yes it is. However over the intervening months I have found a significantly better cable. More expensive? Yes, so if your budget is around that of the Sommer then go ahead. If you are prepared to spend more ( but certainly not into the crazy prices that exist - it’s still inexpensive compared to the price of a Bartok ) I would recommend that alternative. I will send you a private message later.

Thank you Pete. Looking forward to your pm.

Still not sharing the latest gem? :wink:

Curious myself as I am now in need of an XLR cable to use with my new Headamp GSX MK2 which will be here on Friday (a new addition to my current GSX Mini).

Best
Gregg

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Outrageous :slight_smile:

I really want to know why @PAR isn’t coy about his preamp, but is excitingly secretive about his cable!

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I will share the truth with you :wink: …Yes expensive cables are usually way better than cheap cables…I use Transparent Reference AES/EBU cables and actually Transparent Reference cables from NB to dCS DAC to preamp, to amp and to loudspeakers…I wouldn’t change them to 30$ cables…I have friends with 30 $ cables all along in their HiFi, believe me, they much prefer listening music on my system :slight_smile:

For those more interested in technic, it seems that Transparent cables “tune” the cable to your system. I don’t know exactly what they do, and if they really do something, but you are asked what components the cable shall link…Well, the end result sounds good, in my system, to my ears…

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