Hi, and welcome to the community.
The Bartók does not have balanced inputs, but balanced outputs.
The input sensitivity of the Diablo 300 is 0,617V, so it is best to output your Bartók at 2V, if you connect it directly to the Diablo without a preamp. Which you do, of course, because the Diablo 300 is an integrated amp.
Lele80 , you have effectively asked this question already in another post.
I know English can be a tricky language for non-native speakers but you refer to input in regard to Bartok’s connectivity to Diablo. However it is a balanced output that you mean. @Anupc has answered this in his response to your other question.
Yes, Bartok is truly balanced and I would be confident given the reputation of The Gryphon that Diablo that its balanced inputs are also truly balanced.
Sorry I created a double post because in one I only ask for the technical specification of the Bartók. While in this I ask for a general opinion on the whole system. Forgive if I make writing mistakes. In the Diablo 300 manual it says that it accepts pre signals up to 6v. Why do you say 0.617v?
Somewhere I had read that the Diablo 120 doesn’t have true balanced inputs. I don’t know if the 300 is different.
Thanks.
I propose the question again,
which XLR cables do you recommend?
Siltech Legend 680i
Nordost Tyr2
Others recommend MIT or Transparent,
but at the moment I have no way to try them.
As a power supply I have heard good feedback on the Shunyata.
Have any of you tried and can advise me?
Thanks
My whole system is Iconoclast. I’ve met the designer he is an impressive guy an audiophile and cable engineer. His cables are absolutely fantastic. The prices are fantastic too and they offer really simple return policies in North America if you aren’t satisfied. Not sure about the rest of the world. You can find indepth reviews at Audiobacon.
I have bartok + diablo 300 and magico A3.
I am using siltech classic anniversary line 770 full loom, xlr, sc and pc.
They’re very neutral, dynamic, organic and balanced cables.
Don’t mix brands for cables, go for one and get all the cables the same brand. The siltech power cords are good enough for this setup.
For the voltage I find 2v works best for me.
For the power, if you can try to put a dedicated line, one for the bartok and one for the diablo.
It makes a huuuuge difference, better than any cable.
In a few weeks they should send me some Siltech Classic Legend 680 to test.
I hope they send me the whole set, power, signal and speaker cables.
I should also be able to try a friend’s full Nordost, it has Tyr2 XLR signal and speaker cables, and Frey power.
What kind of connection did you prefer? RCA or XLR?
Other friends have done various tests with various electronics and have always preferred RCA.
A few days ago with Holo Spring 3 kitsune + Diablo 120, same cable in RCA and XLR version they preferred RCA (they know it was more musical).
I will try some “Faber’s cable”, model: Quinto Element, from an Italian manufacturer, his power cables are phenomenal. Currently I have his Level 3.
I’m very curious to hear Tiglons cables, maybe I organize a test.
Finally, I’ve heard of Shunyata as arguably the best power cord manufacturer (but I’m not sure if that’s true).
Any other impressions or ideas?
Using Bartok does not provide such a simple 1:1 comparison of RCA v. XLR connection. Most audio electronics derive the single ended RCA output by using one half of the differential circuit used to provide balanced connection. That is why the voltage output of balanced is then exactly double that of the singe ended connection.
All dCS DACS are different to the above in that they use completely different circuits of different designs for RCA or XLR connection. The single ended ( RCA) connection is OP amp based and the Balanced (XLR) one is fully discrete. Both are as good as you get but I have never read of anyone preferring the RCA output if they can use the dCS balanced output into a proper balanced input.
Single ended v. balanced is always a question of implementation rather than theory and it is always worth trying both and making up your own mind. IMO Some components are fundamentally single ended designs where a balanced option has been added for marketing rather than engineering reasons. They will tend to sound better if used single ended. Others have been conceived as balanced designs from the beginning but have single ended outputs added as not everyone has balanced equipment to connect them to. Those designs tend to offer better sound from balanced connections. This consideration applies both to the source component and to the amplifying component that it is connected to.
I haven’t tried RCA vs XLR under the assumption that XLR > RCA, let me know if you try it yourself.
As for the cables, I just tried Siltech in this system, I’m quite happy with it, I don’t feel like the cables are restraining or colouring anything.
I was initially between Siltech and Shunyata but being in Europe, the similar line of cables from Shunyata would have cost double the price of the Siltech.
About the new classic legend line, I haven’t tried them myself but my dealer told me that they were more extended in the high’s and low’s and could give a sense of a less organic medium vs the classic anniversary. I’d still like to try them myself at some point.
About Shunyata being good cables, I have no doubt, but they specialise in their noise reduction technology. So in my eyes, it is treating a problem. I decided to go one step further and eliminate the problem by installing dedicated lines.
Before you look at any cables, you should really look into this possibility if you have the chance.
The cost is relatively modest and the results are more than worth it. It is not the same system plugged on another outlet. It is really a huge difference. Completely noise free and huge dynamics.
IMO it is the first thing that should be addressed in a HIFI system before anything else.
After months living with my system now, the biggest yields have been obtained by optimising the power at different places.
Also, if your system is new, expect 5/600 hours before you can make any valuable evaluation.
It will be impossible to objectively compare cables before you have reached that point.
Let me know if you’re interested about more tips and my experience optimising this system and if you need more details about the dedicated lines.
Thanks for your experience.
Not being able to install a dedicated line,
I have recently had new 10 sq mm cables installed which reach the apartment from the meter. In the apartment I have a circuit breaker dedicated to the system with a new dedicated line of 2.5 sq mm. If I want, I can turn off the whole house and leave only the system line switch on. From the tests carried out by turning off everything, fortunately, I do not notice substantial differences. The voltage in the evening is constant at 230v during the day it never drops below 220v. So I would say that I can count myself lucky in terms of the power line. But I’ll do other tests.
me lo chiedo anchio, se a parita’ di qualita ’ del cavo ,sia meglio xlr o no , cmq sia il Bartok che il Diablo hanno un circuito realmente bilanciato.
io sto utilizzando cavi di alimentazione Valhalla 1 e Tyr2 , di segnale Tyr2 rca , cavi diffusori Heimdall2 ,cavo coassiale Ansuz c1 per la meccanica cd e un Sablon ethernet dallo switch al Bartok
Hello,
Have you tested the Siltech classic legend yet?
Hi, I haven’t been able to test the Siltechs yet, on the other hand I have on test these days in Nordost Tyr2 XLR and speaker cables. also I’m testing EtherRegen as well. At the end of the tests, I will write what I heard.
Hello,
Can you tell us how was the Nordost tyr2 XLR between the Bartok and the Gryphon ?
At the end, which cable did you chose ?
With XLR, do you still use 2V output, or do you finally prefer 0.6V output ?
Thank you by advance.
Tyler Durden
And what about about the Tyr2 speakers cables ?
I had a full loom of TYR2 but my amp is a darTZeel 8550MKII. I Then went to Valhalla 2 and in my opinion the TYR2 is the best value for money, then the SQ improvement does not get in line with the price. I had an Odin power cord from the wall to the power block and i then was trying the Odin Gold and its crazy money. I try the top of the range of synergetic research SRX full loom with the SRX power filter its far better than the Odin Gold.
I use the XLR connection and in the past use 6V but its a matter of taste that i think most is psychological because you get lot more loud for the same volume but you just have to see if the power input of your pre or integrated amp allows the voltage.
Meanwhile I’ll do a post of my experience testing the Odin Gold Vs the Synergetic SRX.
HI,
after many tests and 7 preamplifiers tried, including Essence and Padora, I say with extreme certainty that even with a Rossini APEX (I tried that too), the dCS DACs are not sufficient to be used in place of a preamplifier.
Without it there is no openness of the soundstage and less harmonic release and musicality.
Impedance and voltage matching between pre and power is essential.
The bass becomes more controlled and articulated and the mid and high frequencies more pleasant and musical. However, due to lack of budget, I currently continue to listen without a preamp and it’s still a great listen.
Tyr2s are excellent cables.
They were very fast and go in the direction of a clear and bright, but not fatiguing, sound.
I think the most balanced Nordost cable is the Valhalla 2, everything is correct and musical. All frequencies are balanced and there are no more highs, mids or lows, with huge harmonic release. They only have one huge flaw, the price!
Personally I decided to wire everything with Italian artisan cables, Faber’s cable. Great harmonic release, more convenient price and from the basic line to the top of the range, they do not have different timbral settings, going up only changes the opening of the soundstage and the harmonic release that increases.
With the same cable, between Bartok and Essence stereo I undoubtedly preferred the XLR connection, which is much more defined.
In various tests, I preferred 2 V. 0.6 V returned less dynamics, a much flatter sound.
Listening in DXD, DSD tends to close the upper part of the scene, limiting its harmonic release. I have noticed this in all systems with dCS Bartok or Rossini, even APEX.
The filters, I found these settings correct, also recommended in the manual, again because they were the ones in which they cut the scene the least at about 2 meters in height.
44.1 Hz → F5; 32, 48, 88.2, 96 Hz → F2 176.4 - 384 Hz → F6
I forgot to tell you that after comparing the Diablo 300 with the Essence power amplifier alone, I decided to buy the Essence and sell the 300.
The Essence, even if it is declared with “only” 50W, has more driving capacity even with large speakers.
In particular, it is much more transparent, a lot more details pass through and offers a more correct and neutral tone, compared to the 300 which was a bit amber, “warm”.
Everything seems to be more fluid, precise and 3D. This is a real leap forward, even compared to the Daiblo 333.
It is certainly more expensive and requires more cables and a preamp.
But I love the Essence, even after making numerous comparisons with other stereo power amps.
Thank you very much for your very detailed answer.
Your experience is very instructive for me.
For my part, my trials over the last few weeks have led me to choose a Kubala Sosna Emotion XLR cable, between the Bartok and the gryphon diablo 300. I even preferred it to the tyr 2, my second-best choice. Kubala Sosna totally transformed my system when the Tyr 2 was musical, but as if invisible, totally transparent. I had to choose between transfiguring my stereo and simply adding a totally neutral, invisible cable. Installing this new Kubala Sosna Emotion cable made me realize that 2v output on the bartok was not the right choice for my system. It took some getting used to at first, but 0.6V is definitely the best solution.
I hope you will tell us which preamp you will choose. It seems the Essence preamp is not as good as the amp.
Thank you very much for your experience !