I’m afraid this is long-winded. Even by my standards.
The TL;DR version: I’m both objectivist and subjectivist. But “try it, you might like it,” by itself, is not very helpful at understanding what makes a product worth the process of interrupting music for enjoyment.
-----------overdone bloviating version-----------
I believe we can hear things we either cannot measure or don’t yet know how best to measure. I also believe we can measure things that might not matter or that we cannot hear. But I believe the objectivist/subjectivist camp mentality is a false dichotomy. The notion of hearing subjectively, which every single one of us does, is not exclusive of understanding how audio equipment is engineered, and how it performs its intended functions. Pete said it better than I will. And I appreciate Chris’s humor—yeah, you can hunt me down if that Vivaldi Clock disappoints, and I will buy the first two rounds of beer —but please take a moment and listen to what I am saying. I’ve said it here many times: I believe cables can make a difference, just as I believe power can make a difference, etc. I’ve written that many times here. I’ve put my wallet to it as well. No one is saying you cannot hear and decide for yourself whether you like a given piece of something in your audio system. In fact, I agree that this is all that really matters at the end of the decisional process. However, it’s not a very effective starting point. Precisely because our respective ears/brains/rooms are different, it helps to have common language and principles we can share to help each other understand what we are experiencing.
ruudvde, I know the Shunyata site very well. My dealer sells Shunyata, has loaned me Shunyata, etc. But that Shunyata site contains zero explanation in engineering terms about why and how their Sigma Ethernet cable should be better in either of our systems. You may love it; and that’s great! For the price, you should be happy. And I am glad you are.
That’s all fine and good if it works for you. I suspect a lot of people do exactly that. I do that sometimes. But what if your dealer doesn’t have what you want to try? What if your dealer suggests something, but it doesn’t make sense to you? What if it’s Greg suggesting that ruudvude try the Omega Ethernet cable? Do you not ask for an explanation of why it might make an improvement for you? Or at least why the Omega is worth 250% more than the Sigma, which you already think sounds great? Maybe you don’t. For me, time is my most precious asset. I am not very interested in using that time playing the endless game of audiophool upgradeitis, which mostly lines my dealer’s pockets. Especially with a system that gives me no end of delight now. I want to understand where and how and why it could be better—something I might have a hope of disentangling from expectation/confirmation/perception bias. It’s part of what I love about this hobby: understanding. I like to understand how and why our systems reproduce music well or poorly. It’s not an objectivist challenge or insult.
I’ve said it many times: we all have one set of ears, and we are the only ones who have to live with them. But Paul, be realistic, who has time to see what they feel with every big and little piece of equipment? One has to set boundaries. And so, one develops a taste (or feeling) for what one likes and tends to pursue better renditions of that feeling. But that’s only part of the deal here. It’s neither a revelation nor informative to say “if it feels right for you, that’s all that matters.” No kidding! It’s my money, and I can spend it how I want. Same for you. But as we get better and better systems, I think it’s natural to have this exchange:
“Okay Paul, or Dealer Sam, what makes it likely that I will hear an improvement in my system?
You: Well, compared to the AQ Diamond, it sounds more full and detailed.
Me: But I don’t have the AQ Diamond. I have XYZ basic Cat 6 unshielded.
You: I will loan you my AQ Diamond. Send me your addy and PP me $5 for shipping. When you get done listening, then see if your dealer will loan you a Sigma.
Me: Before we go down that rabbit hole, help me understand what the AQ is likely to improve.
You: Well, our systems are different, so I can’t really say how yours will sound with their cable, but it’s definitely going to be better than XYZ.
Me: How?
You: Try it, and you’ll hear it.”
All I want is forthe people who make my equipment, the actual engineers, to be able to explain why and how their product works. Sorry, ruudvde, that Shunyata page you linked is not an explanation. It’s mostly marketing gobbledygook with almost no meaning, and no visible engineering—I’m talking about the page, not the product; the product may be superbly engineered—but there is zero explanation of how it does its “Ethernet job” any better than the basic Amazon cable @Andrew has already mentioned he uses. Moreover, that Sigma cable might indeed make your system sound different, but the likeliest reason for that, as Pete explained, is that it doesn’t meet the spec for what dCS says is the best cable for its DAC.
Now, I agree with you, that all that matters is whether you like it. That’s all. So, you can be perfectly happy with a non-compliant Ethernet cable if it makes your system sound to your ears the way you want it to. And when I come along and ask you how or why it works, it’s perfectly legit for you to say: “I have no clue; for me, it just does.” Nothing wrong with that. But there is also nothing wrong with me saying: “that’s not enough to get me out of my chair or over to Amazon or over to Upscale or Uptone or BJC, etc.; I need to understand a little more first.”
You say most designers go with their emotional feelings? Really? Do you have some evidence of that? If it’s true, it probably explains why we have so much BS in this hobby/business. I want engineers who understand physics, materials, technology. Yes, I want them to be emotionally invested in their outcome; I want them to care, just as I want my car designers/engineers or camera makers to have emotional connections with their products. Those are good things. But sheet metal integrity, engine air flow, wire conductivity, pixel light sensitivity, spec conversance, all these things are fundamental building blocks. Otherwise, it’s just throwing stuff against the wall to see if it sticks.
Seriously? Well, perhaps he ought to check out Iconoclast, where cables can in fact be measured and designed differently, and the engineering helps to explain what we hear [and how it makes us feel, depending again on our own intervening ears and brains]. Iconoclast is a place where real engineering is discussed in great detail, and transparently provided so the end user can decide if it makes sense to them. Iconoclast pages aren’t fancy like Shunyata, but they are decidedly more informative. Don’t fall for that BS that designers design by “feeling.” If that is really what someone is doing, versus what they are saying to Darko in order to create a connection with the listener, then that really is just throwing stuff against the wall. It really does sound like inflicted audiophoolbamboozlitis.
I asked very simple questions to assist me in evaluating whether the recommendation of the Shunyata Sigma Ethernet cable is worth pursuing. As I said, I am open to the possibility. This isn’t a “bits are bits” argument. Bits are bits, but voltage swings defining the difference between 1s and 0s are in fact amenable to being produced and transmitted more accurately and reliably by some devices and cables than others. And there are cables that can be so poorly made that they introduce noise into a system that can be audible. Because of its design, the Shunyata may in fact be doing exactly that. Don’t know. I do know it is not compliant with dCS’s recommendation for its equipment. So, in order for me to even think it is worth considering, I would love to have an understanding of how it could make the sort of improvement that Pete defines:
I’ve spent tens of thousands of dollars on cables and power improvement in my speaker and headphone systems. And that’s not counting the many products I went through to get to what I have. Iconoclast [cables], Torus [power] and PS Audio [power] all have sound engineering behind the claims they make. I agree with you both, Paul and ruudvde, that the only final way to know whether their products work in your system is to try it. But all those companies are exceptionally forthcoming with explanations about how and why their products deliver their claimed benefits. And all have suggestions for making some assessments about your status quo before plunking down money Likewise for clocks. I did not expect to hear the difference that clocking made on the Bartok, Rossini, and Vivaldi. But I did. And dCS and a host of other credible sources can explain why that clocking is so important. I’ve discovered my ears and brain seem fairly sensitive to timing, even if at my age, my sensitivity to high frequencies has fallen off, and due to some medical issues, I have significant tinnitus. And I’ve gotten caught up in seeing if I can bring even more accuracy to the clocking; I am on my second reference clock, with a third on the way. This is probably a fool’s errand, but @James has explained the engineering behind this pursuit of mine. The engineering says there can be a difference; whether I can hear it is up to the eternal struggle between my heart, my brain, and my wallet. [SWMBO seems to enjoy watching me chase my tail . . . up to a point. ]
So, I get that you like what you hear, and I respect that. Perhaps you might also understand some skepticism. Your enthusiasm can spark interest, and for me, additional understanding can generate persuasion enough to invest time. Ruudvde, your wifi setup is a perfect example of that. I don’t use wifi for audio here at home, except for casual listening through AppleTVs and using Airplay with dCS components on occasion. But for some, it’s a great solution with comprehensible engineering behind it. But . . . do you perceive that the wifi connection lends an audible SQ improvement. If so, what is it and what could it be? Isolation for one thing, as you note. That’s something that, for someone who has yet to achieve good noise isolation, can be very helpful to know.
-------------end bloviating for now----------------