I have the opportunity to purchase a Vivaldi transport and Bartok dac and would like to know if this is a sensible combination due to the price difference, but also, possible upgrade a couple of years down the line to upgrade to a Rossini dac.
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Hi,
As a combination it will work fine but you won’t be able to control the Vivaldi Transport from Mosaic as that combination isn’t supported by the app so you’ll be looking at using either the front panel controls or an IR remote to control the transport.
Whether it’s “sensible” … well, you know the price that you would be paying for the Vivaldi Transport and you know how significant the ability to play CDs / SACDs so really only you can make that sensibility judgement…
I hope that helps…
Phil
It all depends on your finances. Vivaldi transport is probably the best CD/SACD one ever made. Note, however, that it is necessary to synchronise the transport with Bartok which may also require purchase of the system clock. Read the FAQs here on clocking to find out why. However Bartok does have a wordclock out port so you can slave Vivaldi Transport to it. However I cannot establish if the output varies according to the sample frequency of input. Maybe someone has the answer? Yes, there is a performance gap and used Rossini DAC and clock may be a better fit.
There are two Vivaldi transports so establish which one is available. In both cases, however, bear in mind that transports do not have an infinite life and certain components will fail in due course in particular the Optical Pickup Unit as the laser has a finite period before its power diminishes and requires replacement. Spares are very difficult to find but dCS has a stock, at least until exhausted. This will not be a cheap job however.
For me the overriding consideration is if it is a basic Bartok or Bartok Apex. I consider it advisable to upgrade to Bartok Apex as this is a major improvement and helps narrow the performance gap between the units.This nevertheless bears a significant cost ( around $9k).
Of course upgrading to Rossini is feasible just talk with your dealer at the time. However Rossini was introduced many years ago now and if you are looking to some further years ahead there may be other dCS options by then.
I’ll just add that if you want to make use of Bartok’s full capabilities (i.e., inputs) for playing CD and SACD then I don’t think you have any alternative to a dCS transport. So, if you expect to be committed to the dCS sound over the long term, then the main question is: Rossini transport or Vivaldi? If the price for the Vivaldi is exceptional - something you aren’t likely to find again, and similar or better than that for a Rossini transport - then buying a Vivaldi would make sense. Of course, if you could find for similar money a Rossini dac + transport, or a Rossini player (but it doesn’t play SACD), that might make more sense for you. I also note that I expect there are more of us here with Rossini transports + Vivaldi dacs than the other way around.
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Like me 
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Hi Phil,
thanks for replying so soon. They are used, and one owner from new. The transport has the dCS remote and they will be being delivered probably next weekend. I will send you the serial numbers for any service and software updates. I will be using them with a Naim 252/SupercapDR and ATC SCM100aslt loudspeakers, Chord signature tuned array cables throughput.
Hi Pete,
you have touched on one of my main concerns, the Vivaldi is costing me ÂŁ17000, my single most expensive hifi component that I have purchased and the thought of it failing is on my mind.
Hi Simon, Did you get your ATC’s? This is the Stephen that bought you Westwick balanced power supply!
Pete, worst case scenario, the laser fails, what would I be looking at repair wise.
Hi Pete,
Why not take the Wordclock Out from the Transport into one of the Wordclock Ins on the DAC and set that input to use that Wordclock source? No separate clock needed…
Yes it does but if you use the Wordclock out from the Transport then you don’t need to worry.
Phil
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“Did you get your ATC’s? This is the Stephen that bought you Westwick balanced power supply!”
Good grief! UK high end hi-fi seems to be a very small world, and I had that power supply a long time ago, roughly when I’d got my dCS Puccini player. How are you doing? I hung on to my B&W 805 speakers for many years (a mistake, I now think) and ended up with a pair of Monitor Audio speakers from their Platinum range which which I’ve been very happy for several years. Pete (PAR) is an ATC customer.
By the way, there are a few dCS owners on the forum who’d probably describe themselves as “Naim refugees” and advocate connecting the dCS boxes direct to power amps (or active speakers) if a pre-amp - especially a Naim one - isn’t needed to handle other inputs or outputs.
I’d certainly suggest trying going straight from the Bartok to the ATCs - you may be very surprised at the difference (hopefully pleasantly) and if you don’t need the input switching of the 252 + SuperCap then you could then sell that to offset some of the cost?
Phil
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Thinks: I can see that working if you stick to playing silver discs where the sample frequency is always based on 44.1. I assume that means that if Bartok is slaved to it then it too will be synchronised to that frequency. However what happens when Bartok’s streaming board is employed and receives program signal @48 or multiples?
Pete, since the streaming board is a different source than the disc transport, it will have its own clock settings remembered; so that would be “master” instead of W1 as for the transport. So when the streaming board is engaged it’ll automagically disregard the clock coming from the transport.
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I couldn’t say . The cost is not just the component but labour ( and maybe transport). The last OPU dCS repaired for me was a few years ago with Paganini transport , that was several hundred £ and I would expect inflation to have increased that significantly. If you are looking at the KJ West One used offer this is Mk.1 and uses the VRDS Neo mechanism which was very expensive.
I gather from the thread that you are in the UK so you could try giving Absolute Sounds a call and ask if they can guide you.
As for @Phil’s suggestion about direct coupling your ATCs, although this is a great idea I would not settle on doing this without trying. Yes it will be technically the best solution . However I have tried Elgar, Paganini and Vivaldi and whilst admiring the result for whatever reason it never gave me a satisfactory emotional experience. There is still the Apex version to try though if I can get a friend to help. It might also depend on your pair of ATCS. There have been both major and minor changes to the tri-amps over the years. Earlier ones have a higher input sensitivity which can make finding a satisfactory volume setting whilst keeping within the recommended minimum DAC volume setting difficult especially if you find using 0.6V line output not to your taste. However I think that the recommended volume setting range with Apex is wider.
As an ex-Naim user, I agree with all others that their pre-amps can be improved upon for these purposes.
To be honest I am not sure that this may be the best path for you as you seem new to the brand. It would not be the optimum combination ( though it will work) , cost a lot even used and has that question over longevity at least without servicing. I have been in this hobby for many decades. One thing I have learned is that if you need to ask a question whether to make a purchase the likely correct answer is - No.
Thanks but what about the DAC section? Is that still no longer referenced to the transport wordclock out?
If it was me i would spend the £17000 on a dac, rather than the vivaldi transport. Even if i had 1000’s of cd’s, it would be dac first.
Not saying the bartok isn’t good, but i feel you will enjoy the music more going with say a rossini apex dac and a more affordable cd transport.
You might even be able to strech to a vivaldi dac.
But it’s your budget and you can go with whatever you feel is best. But i wouldn’t be surprised if any dealer would rather see the expensive cd transport go out the door as the market for it in the uk is quite small these days.
If the clock setting for any network source (the streaming board) is M (master), then the DAC will follow that.
The BartĂłk User Manual suggests using the Clock OUT port and sync-mode Master on the BartĂłk actually (IINM, that Clock Output remains at 44.1 unless changed from via the RS232 port).
Hmm… unlike the Filter settings, I don’t recall the Unit’s Clock setting changing with the DAC’s input port selection. So, using the Clock Out port on the Bartók and sync mode in Master is really the only practical configuration for using the dCS Transport with the DAC without an additional Clock unit.
It does, I experience that on a daily basis. When I switch from NETWORK to say, AES1 or Toslink then I simultaneously switch from W{1,2} to A to reflect that the device that is connected to the AES1 port has its own clock and the DAC needs to recover it from the external device. I configure it once; on subsequent selection of that source the correct clock setting follows.
It would be highly inconvenient if I had to monkey around with clock settings each time I switch inputs.