I know the Vivaldi is more resolving with more apparent low level detail compared to the Rossini, however is there any difference in terms of tonality, “meat on the bones”, etc? This is just DAC to DAC. Of course one does upsampling and the other doesn’t (by itself).
Vivaldi, there is no contest. Find a dCS dealer and ask for a demo. But if it is not easy to arrange where you live…then trust me ….Vivaldi (even without the clock…)
Hi RGS2020 and welcome to the community.
In terms of tonality per se the Rossini and Vivaldi are similar. The circuits that make the largest contribution to this aspect are the analogue RCA and balanced outputs and AFAIK they are either the same or very similar for the two products.
What was to me was the big difference when I compared Rossini and Vivaldi ( albeit now some time ago) was the sheer grandeur of the music from Vivaldi by comparison. It is hard to explain but one understood not only what was going on in the music but somehow why. Nothing to do with low level detail.
However this was with Vivaldi clock which is another important ingredient.
Finally do not overlook the importance of the Vivaldi Updsampler. It also contains the network board which is more important than the upsampling facility IMO. Vivaldi DAC has no network input, and in most systems it therefore only offers USB for this purpose ( in conjunction with e.g. a computer or streamer). Outside of the rest of the Vivaldi line it is hard to provide sources that will exploit its full capability . You will learn as you become familiar with this forum that it is pretty much the universally agreed case that inputs other than ethernet are inferior for streamed audio, in particular USB (which outside of dCS has become a sort of standard).
So you can play CD to a high standard using the S/Pdif or AES inputs but only SACD if you have a dCS transport due to encryption issues. Otherwise, without that ethernet input which comes via Vivaldi Upsampler, it is hard to know what source would have suitable connectivity to justify the cost of Vivaldi DAC. I did run Vivaldi fed by Win 10/JRiver via USB and would never go back as the sound quality was degraded so much compared to Mosaic/ethernet.
Up until last week I would therefore have recommended Vivaldi DAC plus, at least, Network Bridge ( which is how I ran my Vivaldi for a few months). Unfortunately NB is now discontinued.
So I think you need to consider Vivaldi plus Vivaldi Upsampler. Vivaldi DAC alone now seems a difficult buy as it does not replicate Rossini in necessary features and these require at least one of the additional Vivaldi boxes.
Of course I agree with ChrisK. Hear the difference at a dealers.
Thanks for the replies.
If I decide on the Vivaldi, I may or may not add to it in the future. With regards to streaming, I can use my Aurender N20 or Nucleus. I was never a real fan of the sound quality of Roon however. I prefer just streaming Tidal and Qobuz and FLAC from a HDD.
So with this in mind, does the Vivaldi still get the nod? Mind you I could alway add a clock to the Rossini and still be less costly than just the Vivaldi by itself.
I do not see the point in spending a huge sum on Vivaldi and then not optimising the way it it receives data. I am speaking from personal experience here as I have previously more or less done what you propose and only when I moved away from that configuration to a proper NAS/Ethernet connected system did I realise what a constricted setup I had been listening to.
Frankly you will end up with something sounding not as good as it is intended to be and for that privilege find yourself a large sum of £,$,€ lighter. Forgive the metaphor but a bit like buying a Bugatti Chiron and fitting it with retread tyres .
That’s the thing to do IMO.
I decided to go with the Rossini. I’ll add the clock once I have the Rossini in my system for a while.
Thanks for the comments. Much appreciated!
Good choice. However either way you will still get a huge improvement to the sound by moving away from playing FLACS stored on HDDs to storing your FLACS on a simple home NAS running MinimServer ( see FAQs for why the latter) using the network connection. Most folk here will tell you that but in this context I thought that you might be interested in Herb Reichert’s follow up review of Bartok in the current Stereophile. Obviously Bartok is not of immediate interest to you but read his comments on moving to ethernet connection and away from his old computer:
If you do want to stick with HDDs I would be aware that the various types and brands do not necessarily produce the same end results in SQ. I know that they should but they do not in practice.
Great, choice with the Rossini. One thing about the Vivaldi - of all the DCS DACs in production right now, I believe the Vivaldi has been around the longest - so I would expect it to get replaced first.
It will be quite interesting to see how DCS can improve upon the Vivaldi.
I never found ethernet sounding the best (for my personal tastes). For me going USB into a Innous Phoenix reclocker and then to a very good USB to AES/EBU converter with a modified Paul Hynes linear power supply sounded the best. I use an MIT Oracle MA-X AES/EBU digital cable.
That’s a lot of work to solve problems Ethernet doesn’t even have.
But to each their own. We all hear what we hear. dCS (you know, those folks who developed asynchronous USB) will tell you that Ethernet is a superior interface for their DACs.
Who said there’s a problem to solve? It’s whatever sounds best to the person doing the listening. I have tried it this way on a few different components, and music always end up having more meat on the bones and a richer sound. The trade-off sometimes is you lose some of the euphonic sound.
With that said, I have not tried ethernet with the Rossini as of yet, and will of course try that as well and see if I like it.
All technology choices for music playback are about “solving problems.” Reclocking USB is “solving problems.” As is converting to AES/EBU. USB audio always requires solving problems not present in other protocols, while each of the others has its own challenges. USB is simply not an optimal way to reproduce audio. It can be done, but it requires more work. As I said, “to each their own.” If you like it, that really is all that matters.
Honestly, I have no idea what that means. If you like it, that’s great. But nothing in that quote tells me why. “Euphonic” means “pleasing to the ear,” so if you’re giving that up for “meat on the bones,” I have no frame of reference to understand the trade-off. I’m not criticizing your language; I’m just saying I cannot discern what you mean. What do you think these components—the Reclocker and the AES/EBU converter—are doing that puts more meat on the bones?
If this is your first dCS DAC, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
I have trying 2 Farad Super3 lps-s with EtherRegen and 10MHz w/clock. Am I reclocker? ))
I also remember experiments with usb and thunderbolt. I don’t want to anymore)))
Just because I can, I have my reference clock connected to an EtherREGEN. I am convinced that it does nothing beneficial or harmful.
Greg, what clock do you use with ER? Does it work for Vivaldi clock too?
I have a Novus Kronos1 for my reference clock. Yes, it is connected to the Vivaldi Master Clock.
I haven’t owned a dCS as of yet, however a friend of mine has a Debussy and I have listened to it in my system and loved it.
I haven’t tried the EtherREGEN, but have an AQVOX SE.
I use the ER because it integrates easily with fiber and offers more than one Ethernet connection; otherwise I would use the Gigafoil 4 which, for me (though not for everyone here) is sonically indistinguisahable.
I note the the AQVOX is a reasonably priced, modified D-link switch and claims the following:
State of the Art" Signal Optimization
- Internal Ultra-Low-Noise voltage regulation
- Jitter Reduction
- Signal Shaper
- EMI Eleminator
- Modified/optimized external power supply**
By using components from the audiophile technology in the power supply, plus innovative noise suppression concepts, AQVOX has achieved a quantum leap in the improvement of signal quality during the transmission of digital media data. The data packets experience a precise re-alignment. Sound and picture deteriorating noise (EMI), induced by sources such as PC, NAS, routers, and as well power cables, are largely eliminated.
I mean no personal insult, and this is not intended to be flame-bait, but does anyone actually take this seriously? Reclocking an Ethernet signal? Jitter reduction? Precisely re-aligning data packets? Really?
Don’t get caught up in the verbiage. You have to listen to make your own informed opinion. I’ve tried to take it out of my system multiple times with when I get new components and every time I immediately put it back in.
I have thought about the Gigafoil in the past. I forgot all about it until you just brought it up. I’m going to try one and see how it sounds.