Upsampling bartok

My dealer left me a Bartok to test at home and it sounds great but I don’t understand why it can’t upsampling up to dsd 256 or 512.

  • are these options going to come as an update?
  • Bartok has enough power?
  • Can I disable upsampling from Mossic?


DSD 256 or 512 is not available on any dCS product .

Bartok probably ( almost certainly ) has sufficient power . So far dCS’ stance as has been that there is insufficient demand to warrant the development expenditure.That decision seems primarily related to the limited availability of original recordings in such formats rather then upsampling per se. Whether or not they ever become available as an update is unknown to us users.

dCS decided not to make upsampling defeatable with Rossini which I think remains the case. So I assume that the same concept has been applied to Bartok. So native sample rates are only available with Vivaldi. However there is a “clone” mode in the Mosaic control options for Vivaldi which defeats any upsampling selected. I do not have Bartok but you could look in the Mosaic options to see if you also get that with Bartok.

That there is not much material in dsd 256 or 512 I do not think it has to do with upsampling up to 256 or 512. It seems more like a marketing issue to buy the next versions.

On the other hand, using Mosaic and playing MQA doesn’t perform like Roon does. Why?

I am tempted to ask, why should it? However you don’t really give enough information in your question about any difference to suggest an answer.

That could be but only if dCS has the world’s most incompetent marketing team. There is no next version. Bartok is a recent product. dCS will be refreshing the ranges in due course but their normal procedure is to start with the flagship line and work down through the product range over the ensuing years. On the evidence of past product cycles that would make the replacement for Bartok ready to buy in around 2026/7. Well they might be happy not to sell a Bartok for the intervening 6 years as they want you to buy the next one, but… :thinking:

Excuse me but I do not speak English well, it is not my mother tongue and I use a translator.
What I mean is that MQA doesn’t work on Mosaic. In Roon it does.

What I mean is that I do not understand how a product of this price can not upsampling until dsd512 when almost all high-end dacs can, like Chord or having HQplayer.

I think that you do not quite " get" the dCS brand at present . They are not like a large Japanese or South Korean company making millions of pieces to a strict one year’s production schedule just to be replaced with next year’s novelty in a few months. You are looking at a Ferrari not Ford audio equivalent ( much as I like Ford cars).

If DSD 256 or 512 upsampling provides a real and not illusory benefit and has sufficient demand then no doubt dCS may feel it worthwhile investing the considerable resources needed ( we are probably talking a minimum of tens to hundreds of thousands of pounds given dCS’ perfectionist approach). Please appreciate that dCS was involved in the development of DSD and its original carrier SACD in the first place and subsequently with the invention of DoP. They were the first company to produce practical products able to process nearly all ( all?) of the high resolution formats too.They have more than enough ability to do it to the highest standards if they think it appropriate.

MQA is fully implemented in Bartok so exactly what problem are you experiencing? No doubt someone here will be able to help you.

BTW your communication in English is pretty good. Don’t underestimate your skills :slightly_smiling_face:.

Meanwhile you may enjoy:


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Very interestng, thanks for sharing

Thanks for the video @PAR. My first day with the Bartok and trying to learn along the way

Congratulations on your purchase. Yes, it will take some learning but it should be fairly straightforward to get the essentials working. Other things like finding the combinations of recording resolution and filter that you prefer will inevitably take longer. They can be subtle so immediate “wow” reactions are unlikely.

My only piece of basic advice to a new owner is that, outside of using a disc transport, the network connection to Bartok (or to any current dCS DAC) provides the best sound quality.

@PAR Thank you for the advise. I am using the Bartok with my Synology NAS and will likely be the only source until I finally decide to take up Tidal.

A quick question, do you happen to know how long it takes for the Bartok to break in? My dealer told me a good 500 hours but I’m hoping for much less, haha


Burn in a a difficult subject given that some believe that it doesn’t happen at all. It is also confused by the circumstances that with new gear not only is the new device involved but there are often brand new peripherals too , like connecting cables. Also how does one know when is burn in complete? I know of people claiming improvements with both cables and hardware after thousands of hours. But as I have said elsewhere we humans can find our senses influenced by things outside of the cause that we have attributed the effect to.

I do not own a Bartok but have owned many pieces of dCS equipment. As a very rough guide I would say that a week’s worth of average use for that new and exciting purchase ( say 5 hours a day) with it left switched on permanently during this time will get you much of the way there. Thereon more subtle improvements may occur over a longer period.

The most recent equipment burn in I experienced was of a Vivaldi Upsampler. I wasn’t hearing significant changes, if any at all, after 80-100 hours of playing time. Maybe someone else would.

I am not disagreeing with your dealer just saying that it can be difficult to judge where to draw the line.

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Thanks… I’ve left it playing for the past 24 hours to speed things up :stuck_out_tongue:

The other thing to keep in mind is that burn in, if it actually exists (at least in solid-state devices), will not materially change the sound of the device. So if you like it now, great, keep using it. If there is something you don’t like, take it back while you still can, because burn in will never “fix” it…

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I would just add that burn in ( if it exists :wink:) is often not a linear process. It is not necessarily the case that things incrementally improve. Both hardware and cables can go through regressive periods or introduce new but unwelcome temporary changes to the sound as well. Personally I wouldn’t take back the equipment until I was reasonably sure that it had reached a more or less overall stable sound . Thereon changes would , indeed, not be all that material, more micro than macro.

Back in the mists of time I was a Naim customer. Over a decade or so I changed equipment as their upgrades or my finances allowed. I eventually came to expect that I would pick the equipment up from the dealer on Saturday, it would sound poor on Wednesday and sound better and more or less how it would continue to sound by Thursday night ! That is only a slight caricature.

Unfortunately, we can’t send it back once opened and brought home in my part of the world :frowning: The reason I asked about the burn in is because the Bartok sounded less transparent then my current K-05x and I think it could be because its new. I certainly hope this will change over time

Use the built-in Burn-in option. Let it work for at least 50 hours, preferably 100 hours +.
Try also both types of connection - XLR and RCA.
First time try using filter 1 with conversion to DXD.
Try using different Bartok gain levels with your equipment.
Try using Bartok as a preamp, connecting it directly to the power amp if possible.
You can also try to play files using the usb stick and compare with other types of sources. This will indicate possible problems with other types of connection (network, external source)

After these steps, it will become more clear to you what Bartok is capable of.

P.S. At first, my new Bartok seemed dull in comparison with the my old Debussy dac.
In my case RCA output sounds better than XLR (I noticed this after a year of using only XLR)

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That is almost certainly a burn in issue. To give you a little confidence that this is the case here is a thread from a few months ago. Note especially the change of the OP’s opinion over the course of the thread and the final two posts:

If the Bartok did sound lacking in transparency or “dull” as the OP originally found before burn in , then that would surely have been noted in the dozens of exceptional reviews that the Bartok has received.

According to this thread you have only had the Bartok for around 3 days. So you still have a way to go with even initial burn in.

This might just be me but I have found it worthwhile to turn off the item being burned in for a few minutes for a couple of times during the process in order to discharge the capacitors and to charge them again when switched back on. I suspect that the properties of the capacitors and changes to the dielectric are a big factor in burn in and this seems to speed things up a little. Please note that this is only a hunch and has no scientific proof. But it costs zero to try.

@arzojaan I should be on my 80 hr today (didn’t turn off)… still very much the same on the XLR output. I have just connected a pair of RCA cables to burn in as well. Hopefully, things will change soon :slight_smile:

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@PAR Already past my 80 hr and I’ve also turned it off a few times… hopefully, things will change soon. Also, as the Bartok is a drop in replacement to my previous. Aurender, none of the cables used with are new so can eliminate other variables.

Unfortunately cables are rarely ( read “not”) neutral so a cable that sounded satisfactory with a given component may not be so with another. So I wouldn’t eliminate cables from the variables.

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