Regardless of what is announced on February 7, dCS really will have to at the very least release an update to bring DoP and Native DSD256 to the Ring DAC, and they will have to address native DSD512 and DSD1024 within the next few years as customers won’t consider dCS products unless they do.
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That’s expressed in unequivocal, absolute terms, Bill. Maybe you’re right.
But for what it’s worth I’ve never thought about any of those things, and my Rossini Apex was a recent purchase that I’m very happy with.
Formats are starting to feel like the megapixel race did to me when I was buying cameras. Up to a point they matter to everybody, and beyond that point they matter to fewer and fewer people. Overshooting on certain specs can mean a lack of focus on more important, emerging metrics.
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It’s not important to me, either, but imagine:
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You’re looking to update from another DAC and you bought a few albums from PS Audio’s Octave Records in DSD256 format. Can’t play them on a dCS without paying for Roon. Are you going to put dCS on your audition list?
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You are looking to upgrade from your ESS ES9038Pro-based Oppo UDP-205, which can accept native DSD512 today. Are you going to put a limited to native DSD128 dCS on your audition list?
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You are auditioning an MSB Select and are also considering a Rossini APEX. The MSB can do native DSD512 as opposed to the Rossini’s DSD128. Are you going to put dCS on your audition list?
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You are shopping for your “last” DAC to last you the next ten years. Are you going to consider one that can accept native DSD rates no higher than DSD128, or are you going to look for one that can accept native DSD512 if not native DSD1024 just for future-proofing’s sake?
That’s what dCS is facing. Yes, they can convince those for whom sound quality is most important, but most people narrow down their short list before auditioning components, and most dealers are happy to steer you towards whichever components you come in asking to hear rather than say “Oh, dCS sounds the best, but in all honesty can’t accept files at a higher sampling rate than DSD128, but really, it doesn’t matter, all that matters is the sound.”
You can see a little of that right now in the silly fight about whether MoFi LPs had a DSD stage between the analog master tape and the lacquer; all that should matter is the sound, but people are suing because MoFi didn’t disclose the digital step.
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I am interested to see the price of the upgrade (Bartok Apex), latest price for the non Apex is 19900,- euro, if the Apex upgrade is again around 10K euro, a new Bartok Apex would cost 29900,- . Which gets very close to Rossini Apex territory 33K. If the price for a brand new Bartok Apex does not go up in price (as much as the upgrade will cost) there will be many disappointed Bartok (non Apex) customers who bought the unit at 20K.
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Don’t worry, they can solve this problem quite easily…Selling the Rossini 45.000 and the Vivaldi 65.000, then there is still plenty of room for the Mahler at 95.000 
Searching in Google for “Bartok Apex specs”
thinking the same
the resale value of non apex would take a big hit too, of about the price of the apex upgrade
@BillK though in principal with u but I am not sure how much those points wud influence my final decision.
That is given the fact that there are less number of media available in those formats and the difference in quality of sound is marginal (depends on soany other things including capability of rest of ur stack).
I came to dCS from ps audio’s world after owning their ds sr dac and transport for 9 and 7 years.
Having said that surely encouraging dCS to support the higher rate formats, but not in expense of other important ones.
A new Network Bridge device would be good!
My budget might just stretch to one to trade in my second hand NB! 
If this pricing is correct I cannot see the logic
It’s inevitable that over the next several years people will demand DSD256 and higher recordings but the only way to play them on a dCS “natively” is via Roon.
Guess I fall into the “oh-dCS-sounds-best” category!
Personally I don’t care about the higher rate DSD stuff. I see the value of higher rate DSD stuff as microphone capture options for recording engineers (LSO live captures some recordings at 256 for example). Apart from a hand full of fringe audiophile recordings, DSD still needs to be converted to DXD for editing.
What I find interesting is that a lot of 16/44 classical recordings from the 90s and 2000 sound as good if not better than a lot of high res stuff coming out now though my Bartok
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Same is my experience. And there where I see the real ROI of my Rossini stack.
Regards,
Sourav
I think it’s safe to say most of us here value SQ more than just tech specs. I have both an MSB Select II and a Vivaldi stack. If I had to pick one to live with for the next ten years, I would pick the Vivaldi, even though the MSB is definitely better set for higher resolution playback and is overall more versatile. But I think BillK is correct about the narrowing “sales funnel” risk that dCS faces. I faced those very choices in 2020, and even when I demoed other options such as the EMM, CH, and Nagra, I ended up choosing Vivaldi as my second DAC (based on a Rossini audition). But that’s partly because I started with dCS and a Bartok audition. If I had started the other way around, with EMM or CH first on my list, would I have added dCS to the audition list? I dunno.
I have no idea what dCS’s sales figures look like. I have no idea what their projections are for future sales against a market that seems to be growing. But if other super-high-end makers are already well ahead of dCS on specs, how long will dCS remain competitive for new buyers if they are not perceived as keeping up with their real competitors?
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That is the reason why I think the next gen must be something very ambitious, the replacement of the Vivaldi line, despite of the recent Apex upgrade…Apex II in the Mahler, with new upsampler and new clock…in a more or less compacter size…but probably still larger than MSB…not a long time to wait…
dCS staff…I hope you have fun reading this thread 
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Here is my take:
Next Generation refers to v.3 software optimized for Apex lineup: Vivaldi, Rossini and even maybe Bartok.
I elaborate:
Apex project was originally conceived as a Software upgrade (that is a fact), they first released the apex hardware part, and now (with a good number of Apex upgrades already installed) it’s software time, the origin of the project kicks in.
A good move, since it would incentive more and more apex upgrades and apex generation new units
On the other hand a new line of products would hurt, almost stop, apex upgrades.
Too early for a totally new lineup.
Also, dealers usually know “something” a bit before any big change. What if I buy a new Apex Vivaldi and 2 weeks later a new lineup shows up? I would kill my Dealer.
Even on the Apex upgrade thing they stopped selling old units months before.
In the recently reviewed Apex upgrade, they mention that Apex improvement can go even further (v.3 software makes sense).
dCS has always stated software is as important as hardware, the “next generation” statement can go aligned with that.
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If I understood correctly the Apex upgrade was in the analog part of the board.
That’s why I hope that any software coming also will benefit my non Apex Rossini. Anyway one weekend and a monday, and all will be clear (or not:-)
True, but software can only do so much, and I hate to keep repeating it but dCS is going to need a platform that can do native DSD512, DSD1024 and DoP DSD256 just to not look like old technology when competitors priced more and less than their products are can,
I don’t know if we’ll see one next week but it’s pretty inevitable even if a firmware update were to enable DoP/native DSD256 on our existing products.
Yes, the APEX upgrade was only the analog board, the firmware is the same which is why dCS couldn’t modify the firmware to power up saying “Rossini APEX” or “Vivaldi APEX” for systems that have the upgrade; there’s no way for the processing bits to know what type of analog board is present.
Actually there is: dCS has a list of serial numbers that are APEX units. Based on that they can flash your unit accordingly.
Also, the board replaced is the full Ring DAC board which includes the DAC (FPGA and other components) as well as the analog output section.
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