Agreed. It’s not really an issue for me either. I have 6+tb of music locally, Qobuz, and Tidal if I must. I won’t lack for full/hi-res music. My guess is that Roon and Spotify will work something out. Eventually. If not, no sleep lost here.
On the contrary i really like spotify connect or the upcoming tidal connect
in a way its an equivalent of RAAT only
separating the streaming protocol from software and giving flexibility to develop more choices in user interfaces is a better approach.
although iam a roon lifetime member with nucleus+, roon was always a necessary evil for me, as i only do streaming and don’t have stored/local music
i wish roon focuses their time and energy on integrating more services like amazon hd, deezer and even spotify and apple music itself. but the folks in roon are very stubborn and rigid about their architecture requiring daily data dumps to them.
they simply don’t seem to get that for their own longterm viability they should do whatever it takes to integrate more services
even roon can go fully cloud if they want to do a streaming version of software without local storage.their recommendation engine is anyway going to cloud to colate what other users are listening.
for folks like me who only do streaming, spotify had the largest content, best user interface, best learning algorithms and only thing missing was streaming quality.if this gets fixed ,its hard to beat
Everyone is free to make their choices. I know there are lots of people who like the Spotify interface, and insist that its algorithms are to die for. I am not one of them. But that’s not a problem, because I can choose not to use Spotify. And that’s my choice. The fact that you don’t care about local storage, though, shouldn’t dictate Roon’s breadth of service to those of us who do. If I didn’t have local storage, but still owned dCS equipment, I am not sure I would use Roon. Mosaic is more than ample for that purpose, and they include Spotify.
Roon would be happy to make Spotify available. They already do Tidal and Qobuz; Spotify would be added value. The problem is not Roon. The problem is Spotify and how they monetize their users. Sorry, this isn’t about architecture. It’s about who owns the customer relationship.
absolutely customer relationships are primary and architecture is secondary.
but roon has to compromise if they want to add more services to their kitty which they don’t seem to be relenting.
on the deezer roon integration thread they are saying ball is in deezer’s court to reach out to them and roon is rigid about their architecture for sure
Hmmm. That’s exactly what people said about Apple.
Apple and spotify have a sense of scale ,size and financial backing and ability to turn industry around, set standards and be viable and succeed.
so they can be rigid or do whatever they want. roon is not at that level.
In what way does Roon have to “compromise”? (I’m not aware if there’s any “architectural issue” between Roon and Spotify, do you have a pointer to that if so?)
for example one point i keep hearing from roon management, that all service providers have to provide an offline daily data dump of catalog and metadata to roon. and roon says catalog api is not sufficient for them
in general roon has a set their own standard of integration for themselves and they are not willing to change or adapt and they are very rigid about it.
if any provider does not comply with their standard/architecture format roon does not move forward with integration or further talks.
that is why iam saying they should be willing to compromise/mend adapt by being flexible about integration and their architecture.
if data dumps are not there and api’s are there they can build using api’s and adapters to bring data into roon or atleast provide realtime playing experience for these providers.
on the RAAT side they have done a phenomenal job.but not so much on service provider integration.
I see. I did a quick search on community.roon, looks like the following is what you mean?
I’m not sure about the “offline” part of your comment, but I do get your point. Sounds like the APIs from some Content providers are not adequate for Roon’s needs, but I really don’t see Spotify (or Amazon for that matter) augmenting their APIs just to suit Roon
exactly @Anupc. thats the point.
yea i meant the catalog database dump as offline/non real time.
roon was able to force their way with smaller players like tidal and qobuz.but this is not a realistic demand with bigger players like amazon or spotify
IMO the ultimate goal should be about providing more content from around the world which will come from integrating more services or the service with the largest content.in my view roon is being myopic about this and should adapt changes to their integration approach to integrate with spotify or amazon HD or apple music (when they go redbook)
may be its not a first class integration like tidal or qobuzz ,atleast a less enhanced or less rich integration for other players.
this is where i like the approach dcs took. when i was choosing between dcs and msb i went with dcs bcoz they have so much skin in the game for software streaming support.they made sure we could stream from every provider qobuz/tidal/deezer/spotify/apple music and i guess are working or trying to see of amazon hd can be integrated.on the other hand msb had no skin in the game and they just went with roon which limits my possibilities.
of course mosaic experience is not as rich as roon. thats why if we can have raat/spotify connect on the device endpoint side and rich app from cloud on the provider or 3rd party side it.becomes best of the both the worlds.
Will we see Spotify integrated by Roon? No. To think otherwise is to underestimate the audiophile world’s insignificance in the broader market. With almost 300 million users, Spotify’s reach is comparable to the USA’s entire population. Roon, sitting at roughly 100,000 users, is Miami Beach. Spotify doesn’t need Roon. Think about it: if only 5% of Spotify’s userbase makes the jump to its HiFi tier, that’s still 15 million people.
If all Roon users would be using Spotify HiFi, that would mean 0,033% to Spotify.
@Ermos good point. agree.
small correction it would mean 0.066% to spotify .
as of today. roon has more than 250k and not 100k.
Where did you get this number? Source?
@Ermos - from roon team itself.
received the answer to my question on roon spotify integration which most likely wont happen
Simply not historically correct. Currently, perhaps. But when Apple was at death’s door, it stayed its course. But more pertinently, as that last link showed, Spotify isn’t interested. The whole “compromise” canard is just that. Spotify isn’t interested in integrated streaming through Roon. Or anyone else.
@PaleRider its not a canard.
it could be true for spotify or for amazon as they are too big to even consider or talk to roon.
but it’s the same case with smaller player like deezer as well.
point is ,if roon is interested in getting more providers even smaller ones it needs to be flexible.
if roon does not care and wants to be this way then its a different story.
I think Greg’s point is that Spotify is not interested to cede control of end-users to an “aggregator” like Roon. Spotify’s entire business model seems to be built on managing the end-user experience directly. I took a look at their API documentation, very end-user centric - I can see why a platform like Roon would have a problem.