Screen flipping on Mosaic

Support
21

If track titles in Mosaic aren’t being shown as “## Track_Name” then the track numbers haven’t been prepended to the track title tag. There’s nothing we’re doing that would strip them out.

While you’re in the MinimServer config add Composer to the list of tags in the indexTags field on the main tab. If you use others like Conductor, Orchestra, Soloists, etc then you can add those too. MinimServer will build its menus with items listed in the same order as that list.

For instance I use the following on one of my servers:

Artist, Genre, Composition, Composer, Conductor, Orchestra, Soloist, Date, #AudioData:Resolution, #AudioFormat:Type

Note that you must use tag names that correspond to the tag names that you use in your files (Soloist vs Soloists is one that often causes issues).

The issue here is that all UPnP provides us reliably is a container of playable tracks. There’s little information provided to identify what the container actually is. For instance, in MinimServer (if your tags support it) you can browse by Composition and when using that method you’ll end up with an “album view” which only displays the tracks of the composition you are browsing. The other tracks in the album are not displayed.

This is definitely not a MinimServer default, you’ll need to add the option listed above to get the track number prepended.

Could you please elaborate?

On my server I can simply browse Artist > Album and then get a list of tracks. The beauty of the relational structure of MinimServer is that I can browse Composition (say, Bruch: Kol Nidrei) and then select Soloists to pick the particular cellist that I’m in the mood for at the moment. Same goes for finding everything by the Beatles, but only the content that I have in 24 bit.

Don’t give up on MinimServer because it’s different than what you’re used to. With a little bit of work put into the configuration you end up with a very rich browsing experience.

22

Comes up with an error when I try to enter that :frowning:

“incorrect tag tracknumber”

23

Sorry. You need to tell it to add track numbers to its database as well. Add TRACKNUMBER to the end of itemTags on the first tab, then restart.

24

Okay… so to play, for example, Elton John, Yellow Brick Road.

I select AlbumArtist
Then ‘E’
Then Elton John
Then Albums
Then Show All
Then View All
Then Yellow Brick Rd
Then Play All

Seems to me, After I select Elton John it should go straight to displaying hi albums. Then select Yellow Brick Rd, Play All.

There seems to be two too many selections required.

Then

25

Yes it now accepts the entry.

It’s very cryptic this configuring minim isn’t it? :frowning:

26

There’s something not right here… Can you post screenshots of the main and advanced tabs in your MinimServer configuration?

27

It can be intimidating at first, but it does get easier. At some point I’m planning to put together a cheat sheet of what the different options in the configuration screen mean. Just one or two sentences each like:

indexTags
The tags in your files that get displayed in the MinimServer menus. These will be displayed in the order listed.

itemTags
Additional tags that MinimSever adds to its database in order to provide additional functionality.

28

My config
image

image

29

It now shows the track number on the queue list BUT not on the currently playing text on the display. However I changed the title to have the track number on the front and that means the display text shows the track number. But that means the showing in the queue list is superfluous. So if you’re going to change the title text to have the track number text tacked on the front then this solves all the issues.

Steve

30

It’s easiest to break this into two sections as there are two different configuration options at play here:

This is from the AlphaGroup option and as it’s not a default I’m assuming that this is the desired behavior (i.e. you want to browse by alpha before selecting an artist). This is similar to what Asset does.

This can be tuned to your preference using listViewAlbums. What this option does is set a threshold for when MinimServer presents more browsing categories vs just a list of content. If the number of albums in the current branch of the tree is less than listViewAlbums then you’ll just get a list of albums, if it’s more then you’ll get additional categories to browse. A long time ago this defaulted to a reasonable number, but it would appear that has changed to 0.

The point of this option is to give you a list of albums when it makes sense, but to return more browsing options when the resulting list is long. Keep in mind that this impacts all areas of browsing so setting it really high (such that you’re always under the threshold) will mean that you’ll always get a list of albums after making your primary selection.

For instance, say you have 500 albums with Genre=Jazz. If you set the value high (say 1000) then browse Genre > Jazz the result will be a list of all 500 albums rather than the ability to narrow it by selecting an artist.

I typically set it to 10 as that’s a good mix of getting to results quickly but having the option to narrow them when the returned list is long. You may want to set it larger or smaller depending on the composition of your library.

It’s also worth tuning the AlphaGroup parameters so as not to display the grouping when it doesn’t make sense (not much sense in alpha grouping a list of 20 artists). This is totally a matter of personal preference, but when I have this option enabled I usually set the threshold to at least 100 items. In your case if you set:

AlbumArtist=50,[albums]=100,Artist=50......

You would only see the alphabetical binning when the list had more than 50 AlbumArtists or 100 Albums

31

Thanks,

I’ll give it a whirl :slight_smile:

With Asset you set it up with a hierarchical setup for each tag you want to select under. So you can say alpha select for AlbumArtist but under that Albums non-alpha. Then, under album, title again not alpha. So you can click Albumartist,‘E’,Elton John… then all the albums are shown. Select album/play. So perhaps four clicks.

32

Thanks Andrew but having read your responses both to my and and solwisesteve’s postings I wonder if we are at cross purposes?

I understand that adding an article to an index tag allows that article to appear in the list of values that can be searched. Further that these articles can be displayed in alphabetical groups to be searched more easily.

However when I ask for a field to display composer I am referring to the main playing information which only shows artist, album, track title, duration and format.

Imagine that I search for an Album by Bing Crosby. I could browse or I can look under “artist” “B”. I find one called “White Christmas”. I select it and it begins to play with the title track first. Mosaic displays that it is by an artist called Bing Crosby and that it is an album called “White Christmas” and that there is a track called “White Christmas”. I wonder who wrote this song? There is nothing to tell me. As I have composer as an index tag and if I already know that “White Christmas” was written by Irving Berlin I can go to composer and look under letter “I” for Irving Berlin. But I have to be in possession of the information from my pre-existing knowledge to do this.

As I have said this becomes a huge problem in classical music. Track titles are often (usually) just technical descriptions of form and key and which may be shared by many other pieces e.g. Piano Sonata in A major - yes but whose? Sometimes the problem is alleviated by the album title providing a single composer’s name for all of the pieces. However many albums feature mixed composers. As I have mentioned both Qobuz and Roon ( apparently - I don’t use Roon) now recognise this issue and have provided solutions. Perhaps a dialogue between yourselves and MinimServer may help to find a solution ?

NB: track numbers are held in ID3 tagging as a distinct field not as part of a track title.

33

The larger issue here is that there is no standardization of metadata tagging. There are some accepted conventions, but none of them have migrated into de-facto standards and aren’t anything that can be relied upon for universal application. Some people are sure to populate the composer tag, but others choose to store that information in different ways. I realize that you have a carefully-considered way in which you handle tags in your library, but this likely isn’t the same as any one else’s library.

Roon and Qobuz can address this because they both maintain an independent database which follows their defined structure. They always know where particular data objects live so they can display information in a number of creative ways. In the case of Roon the user’s file tags are consulted, but what is typically displayed is from Roon’s own metadata database.

Mosaic is not a music management platform and was never intended to be. It’s a media browsing and playback platform. On the surface it may not seem like there’s much of a difference, but it’s huge.

The information in the Now Playing pane is extracted from the file directly when playback starts and the tags that are extracted are Artist, Album, and Title. These were chosen as they are the most applicable to the majority of users and most likely to be present in all files encountered. We don’t (can’t) maintain a database of track information in your library and this is a reasonable solution that addresses the vast majority of users. It’s also a very common method that is employed by the majority of manufacturers.

We may enhance this in the future, but I can’t make any promises.

Yes, I’m quite aware of this and my suggestion above illustrated a method to have that field displayed in Mosaic as part of the track title. This is a display construct that MinimServer provides and can be useful in certain situations.

34

As an update to my issue with alphabetical play queues and Asset.

Asset have replied and said this is now on the list of future fixes.

Not sure if I should start a new thread for my next question or whether it’s now really a general Mosaic support thread?

Anyway I have another question.

Is it possible to remove unrequired ‘services’ from the service page? I don’t need tidal, spotify, etc… it would be good to remove these from the services page so it only shows those I need and use.

35

Thanks Andrew , that is a very informative response as to the state of play.

It does have outcomes in real life though. When I installed the network Bridge and left it for a friend to play around with Mosaic. At the end of the evening he said " I am stunned , I had no idea that anything could sound that good". So I asked him if he would do it too. " No", “Why?”, " Because I want to know what I am listening to".

Then there is this copied and pasted from an email sent to me earlier this week by a friend who is currently trying to buy a streamer/DAC ( I don’t think that a Bartok is within his grasp):

" One problem I keep encountering with many streaming devices is the appalling or non-existent apps that they offer".

OK the latter is not aimed at Mosaic which I am sure is the Rolls Royce or Ferrari of streaming apps. However noting " It’s also a very common method that is employed by the majority of manufacturers" then, taken as a general comment along with the earlier friend’s remarks your product development team may want to take account of things like this for the future. I am certain that they serve to turn many off of the whole idea of computer based audio.

36

I’ve just discovered the Bartok has Wake-on-Lan!!!

Excellent :slight_smile:

37

Define “wake on lan.”

The unit will come out of the standby state when playback is initiated since the network interface never actually goes to sleep. Actually, very little of the unit goes to sleep when it’s in standby. You can build a complete play queue, adjust settings, and do a number of other things while it’s in standby. It will wake up as soon as you initiate playback via Mosaic, Roon, Spotify, or Airplay.

38

Yes that’s what I mean. It comes out of standby without having to press the power button on the front - this is good not bad :slight_smile: