This topic has been covered on this forum before but often as a side bar to another thread, and so I am providing an update as a new post (a) to make this information easier to find; and (b) so that it may be helpful to others in the “digitize everything” camp.
It is well known that there is a long thread on HiFiHaven on how to rip SACDs via old Blu-ray player. In addition, there is a long thread on PS Audio which attempts to simplify the original HFH thread. I wanted to share that someone finally organized this information in a YouTube video that is relatively easy to follow.
I have tested it and, with a little patience, the ripping process worked for me. I am using a Sony BDP-S5100 bought used on Amazon for ~$50. In addition, I have transferred the files to Roon which recognized them (with correct metadata, so far).
So, all and all a good afternoon. I think I am going to open a bottle of wine now ; )
Hi, now you have so many good streaming services of high quality, why rip? And time goes by and for my experience is more important the recording quality than the data resolution. I still use CDs in my system and i enjoy a lot more than supposed “high resolution” files. I respect people that rip cds and SACD to a computer but i dont see a reason for that.
Because I paid a lot of money for the SACDs, and when I want to hi-res stream the same music, I have to pay again.
Yeah, I kinda understand you, i also have a big collection of Cd´s but i dont rip them, i like the act of putting the Cd on the player that´s why i keep my Metronome Cd transport…
it’s crazy that Sony and Co still rely on disc encyption for SACDs- one can buy highres downloads today and spread the music all over the internet. (their claim was to protect the music rights…) If they would like to sell more SACDs they should get rid off that technology and let people bought SACDs rip their stuff like a CD.
As I cannot delete from this current version of the software I am writing this apology for the lack of information as the software will not save less than a minimum amount of text and this is serving to do that. I was trying to delete a posting that I had not thought through correctly. @James please note.
And dCS does not provide downsampling SACDs to 176.4k PCM in their transports, only to 16/44.1k, apparently for licensing reasons, though technically it would be easy for them (and better quality in combination with electronic room correction accepting up to 176.4k).
My Accuphase transport is connected to my Accuphase room correction, which downsamples SACDs to 176.4k PCM before calculating the filters.
Sorry, but I was talking about SACDs, not CDs.
No matter, both are fisical format and not streaming, that’s what i wanna mean
Further to my above post, this is what I intended to write in reply:
The duration of patents (which is where the embargo on digital outputs from SACD players derives) is for 20 years subject to renewal by the payment of periodic fees during this period. So the original Sony/Philips patent should have expired by now. However licences to use the IP relating to DSD may not necessarily terminate similarly. Further it is not just the SACD itself that prevents copying but the playing hardware and to introduce a digital output for DSD to allow copying would involve significant upgrades to existing machines which the market size would probably not make an economically feasible project. There is also the question of what the player decoding hardware would make of an unencrypted SACD. Presumably it would be rejected. An alternative could only affect new machines which in 2023 are hens’ teeth anyway.
Sony and Philips (the latter now Decca or Mercury) found that SACD was not a success and abandoned the format for new releases by the end of the noughties. Dropping SACD has been the policy of many independent previous supporters of SACD who have discontinued the use of it or only make occasional releases for what they consider special products. The main reason being that most of the production lines for SACD have been shut down leaving only two; in Japan and Austria ( last time I checked). So the lead time on releases is lengthy and may not fit with the schedules of the labels, another discouragement.
Japan is unlike the rest of the world record market where, culturally, the concept of virtual music storage seem not to have been popular and physical product (often using digital formats no longer available elsewhere such as minidisc) remains significant. Of course Japan is such a large market that such things are possible. So SACD and SHM-SACD remain for that market, hence the need to import. Streaming seems not to exist there, for example take Qobuz who do not bother to offer streaming only the download store ( a risk in itself in that market).
So getting rid of the embargo on SACD ripping would probably not produce any economic advantage for rights owners (should that situation still prevail), not be easily facilitated technically for existing players and, if a resulting demand could be created, it would be difficult to meet and need to be of such a size that the investment required is not an unacceptable risk.
Actually Pete, Streaming services are very big in Japan. There are nearly a dozen or so major ones, including Line, e-onkyo and KKBOX, all of whom also stream in high-resolution.
Japan even had a DSD64/DSD128 Streaming services, PrimeSeat, broadcasting mainly live and recorded Classical music. Alas the service unfortunately shut-down a few years ago.
This has been covered elsewhere on the forum and really just comes down to personal preference.
If you have some beloved disks or tracks, and don’t rip them, there is always the risk that they could be removed from the streaming service. Some view taking the time to create their own copies of these disks/tracks as worth the peace of mind.
Thanks Anup. That’s two things I didn’t know about Japanese streaming - I wasn’t sure if DSD could be streamed technically.
I wonder why Qobuz only offer downloads?
Well, e-onkyo was acquired by Qobuz back in August this year, so I assume, they now do have a streaming service in Japan, just branded different (for now)?
Yes it looks something like that. I tried the Onkyo link in your last message and the Onkyo site contains a Qobuz banner but I couldn’t tell if that was for the full service or just downloads. Still, only academic interest me of course.
Just received in the mailbox
Thanks Rob. However unfortunately it doesn’t really answer my question as the new Qobuz information about T&Cs does not define what services are offered in Japan. The checks I have been able to do confirm what I thought - that eOnkyo is a download website not a streaming service. I just explored it a little and was not offered a streaming service but downloads ( approx 5,000 yen for hi-res albums, 620 yen for individual tracks). So it looks like Qobuz bought a goiing concern and have maintained it. There have been postings from them addressed to existing eOnkyo customers to reassure then that they can still download already purchased albums.
Maybe they have added the streaming since the purchase but I remain unclear. One thing that is certain is that whilst Qobuz include the new Canadian operation as part of their service list, Japan is not included ( yet?).
Friendly suggestion: Set your VPN to Tokyo and find out ; )
. Unfortunately the last time I checked, for new customers Qobuz were no longer simply relying on the customer’s DNS but would refuse credit card payments drawn on a card issued by a bank not from the country serviced.
In addition to high-quality downloads, there is also a new streaming function
- High-resolution, lossless sound sources of over 100 million songs
- e-onkyo music and Qobuz cover music catalogs of all genres from all generations both domestically and internationally
- Same purchase and download functionality, same number of songs, same quality, and streaming with the same app.