Power conditioner and Dac sound

What is the maximum current (amperes) consumed by Bartok?

I am considering the possibility of using Torus Power RM8 for the entire system (ATC SCM 50 actives, ATC SCA2 preamp and Bartok DAC.
Any opinions?

Bartók HDAC:

From the manual: Power Consumption: 30 Watts typical / 50 Watts maximum.

AC single phase watts to amps calculation:

The phase current I in amps (A) is equal to the power P in watts (W), divided by the power factor PF times the RMS voltage V in volts (V):

I(A) = P(W) / (PF × V(V))

For a resistive load the power factor is 1.

So, the amps of the Bartók at 220V = 0.227A max, for 120V = 0.42A max.

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Thanks Erno,

Do you think such Torus RM8 (1930Va) will be enough for entire system? The RM16 is too expensive.
ATC 50ASLT are 2x350W
Preamp around 35Va max
Maybe one more small digital device to last 5th power socket…
And Bartok (or Rossini) :slight_smile:

In our Country standard is 230V, but often it around 220V

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Sorry, I do not know if it will work. I have no experience with the Torus or ATCs. You might experience dynamic loss. Try before you buy!

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Agreed . The main complaint from users of transformer based conditioners is a diminution of dynamics. However in their online blurb Torus reckon that their product increases dynamics by offering low output impedance. Presumably compared to straightforward incoming mains. Obviously any such comparison must vary case to case so I take it with a pinch of salt. NB: ATC actives are very dynamic which my neighbours may well be able to confirm ( I do try to keep it reasonable).

Given the components it should be a feasible combination on paper but, as you say, @arzojaan will have to try to find out what it performs like in real life. I look forward to his report in due course.

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Well, I wrote to Torus team and asked if RM8 would be enough for my system. The reply is more than positive. Remains to try.

Wow! It really increased dynamic, the system plays better in the peaks, the lower part of the range is more legible. I would say that in general the all range has improved. Very clean sound without coloration. I have not heard my system like this yet.
Despite the fact that I have a dedicated power line for my system.

Amp-packs are probably quite picky about the power quality.
Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that I did not have earth grounding.

It’s sad that I need to return this Torus. The new one costs quite a lot of money. It will not be an easy task for the near future :slight_smile:

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Yes, the circuit topology that ATC employs is actually called " Grounded Source" which would seem to imply the necessity of grounding :thinking:.

Thanks for that brief report of your findings with the Torus. If I could squeeze one in given my lack of space I would now be interested.

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Well, in the end, I still decided to buy myself a Torus RM8. This was a demo. So for the price I got a good discount and a 5 year full warranty.
I’m sure the RM16 would be even better (position of a true audiophile=)), but it’s too expensive and too heavy. And also the good man Ross from Torus convinced me in every possible way that in my case it is superfluous and RM8 will be absolutely enough for the current system. Although he could just say buy which is more expensive =)

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As I suggested earlier in this thread I will be looking forward to your posting on how you find the result with the Torus. However do give it some time before you write as I have tried a couple of power conditioners which I thought were great when I first powered them up but whose initial charm wore off after a few days when I became more aware of their downsides. Not tnat I am in anyway suggesting that this would be the case with the Taurus which @PaleRider has already recommended.

Yes, I am also a little worried that after a while I will be able to find any flaws. But it will not necessarily be associated with Torus, haha!))
I’ll come back with feedback later as I get used to the new sound changes and try different combinations. Then I will definitely return the system to the power distributor to hear the difference.
But what is clearly clear (don’t know if it’s possible to write like that?) now is that Torus is protecting my system. And during the test week, changes in the sound made me make a purchase :slight_smile:

Great minds think alike!

My Naim/dCS/LP12 System resides in a 2 channel room with a dedicated homerun powering the system. Multiple headphone systems reside in another room and simply plug into the house outlets. I just ordered a Torus Tot Max 15amp conditioner which should be more than enough for 2 or 3 headphone amplifiers and a Linn Klimax DS steamer.

Best
Gregg

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Hello Gregg @glevethan,

since you also have a Naim system (like myself until 2019), I am especially interested in how you evaluate the Torus in your headphone system. Your recommendations as to headphone amps hit the nail on the head for my taste.

I might combine a city trip to Amsterdam with listening to a Riviera balanced head amp in the fall. @Ermos mentioned a well stocked headphone dealer there.

Best,
Marco

@whitecube

There are 2 dedicated headphone dealers here, one in Amsterdam, and one in Delft (near The Hague), both very well stocked:

Amsterdam:

Delft:
https://www.earsunlimited.com/

Hello Marco @whitecube

My Torus TOT Max should be arriving tomorrow and I will immediately begin to put it through its paces. I will be testing it with a Donald North Stratus tube amplifier which I currently have here on demo. After that I will test it with a HeadAmp GSX MK2 amplifier - both will be used with Utopia headphones. If I get a chance I will then proceed and test it with my Stax 009S/Mjolnir Carbon amplifier.

I did quite a bit of research on power conditioners and read a number of online threads from users of different brands of products. I have a good friend who is a member of this forum (magicbus) and he is using an AudioQuest Niagara with his Rossini/Ayer Pre/Active ATC50 system. He is extremely happy with the results - especially as he does not have the ability to run a dedicated line to his system. I have also read with great interest @PaleRider (Greg’s) comments on his Torus.

Perhaps the most interesting thing I can say is that I found an online review video from Upscale Audio which covered the AudioQuest Niagara. The designer, Garth Powell, makes an interesting assertion. He stated that each manufacturer approaches power conditioning in different ways - and each different method is valid and achieves easily discernible results.

With that said I chose the product and technology which was easily understandable and made the most sense - TO ME. In the end, like @PaleRider, the Torus philosophy seemed most aligned with what I believe in. Perhaps my beliefs are grounded in the fact that I own a Naim 500 system which, as we know, is a firm believer in beefy power supplies with large and heavy toroidal transformers. This photo of the insides of the Torus unit sealed the deal for me. I believe it weighs more than a SuperCap :laughing:

Best
Gregg

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Good choice!
TOT MAX can drive ATC50 actives also. It would be interesting if you compare it with your friend who has Niagara and ATС))

Not so easy - he is in California and I am in New York :grinning:

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well at least once a year you should meet to drink a bottle of good wine together :smiley:

Hello Gregg @glevethan,

nice transformer inside! Did you have the chance yet to listen to the Torus in action?

How are the headphone amplifiers performing?

Would you consider it for your Naim system too? When I owned my Naim system most people I talked to were of the opinion, that power conditioners are detrimental to Naim gear’s sound.

Hello Marco

I started playing with the Torus Tot Max on Friday and had an immediate jaw drop moment. With my headphone amplifiers the noise background went to absolute black, bass, volume and dynamics increased, and it was an immediate slap in the face moment.

What I experienced was similar to what my friend @magicbus experienced with an Audioquest Niagara 3000 fronting his Rossini, Ayre pre, active ATC50 setup. We are both now believers in power conditioning.

Further research needs to be done as the only downside with the Torus is a slight buzzing of the massive transformer. It is not as pronounced as the buzzing on my Naim 552/500 PS’s however it is still audible. It is strictly a mechanical vibration from the transformer and not part of the audio signal.

A brief chat with Torus (to be continued today) indicated the cause could be existence of DC on my house line. This is in line with what I found after a bit of googling - it seems to be more common then we think.

I brought the Torus to my brothers house and plugged in - no transformer buzz.

The Niagara series approaches things differently from Torus (see my initial post above) and I might look into trying that unit as well and compare the two. It does not use a Toroid as the Torus so transformer buzz should not be existent.

The above is a round about way of answering your initial question - a resounding YES. After seeing what the Torus has done for my headphone systems I have already starting wondering what it can do for my Naim system.

Best
Gregg

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