Despite the apologies from dCS, I still view Cameron as a snarky non-reviewer doing guerrilla marketing via social media for the DAC he helped design.
If he hadn’t helped design a competing product, I’d feel differently; he did, so I don’t.
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Doesn’t your reply just show that you are an unemphatic elitist?
In what way?
Once you help design a product, you are no longer an objective reviewer for products in that category, it doesn’t matter what the price point is of the designed product or other products under review.
Call me whatever you like, but at least have some basis for your personal insults.
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So because you cannot trust his reviews you think it is ok to bully a person? That is sick.
The conversation is starting to take a turn away from the original topic and become personal. Please keep things civil, and as a polite reminder / notice, the forum FAQs lay out what is and is not acceptable. The important bit here:
Be Agreeable, Even When You Disagree
You may wish to respond to something by disagreeing with it. That’s fine. But remember to criticize ideas, not people. Please avoid:
- Name-calling
- Ad hominem attacks
- Responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content
- Knee-jerk contradiction
Instead, provide reasoned counter-arguments that improve the conversation.
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in addition a link to David Steven’s latest response and apology.
Time to move forward, learn, grow and heal
Does it make sense to lock these threads and end on a positive note?
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Darko.Audio had an Instagram post stating that any of his contributors are not permitted to moonlight as manufacturer consultants or PR people.
That seems reasonable. If you represent or are involved with a manufacturer then you should not be reviewing other manufacturer’s products, at least within the same product category (acknowledging GS’s relationship with Ferrum came after the Bartok review).
To that last point, it might seem to me that Ferrum would not want GS to review products from other manufactures lest they, Ferrum, are perceived as biased. Ferrum is a great company and I had the Wandla and Oor for a while and they were great. I doubt Ferrum wants to risk any controversy with their brand, products and those they partner with.
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that would be ideal, but many of us live in places where this is difficult if not impossible to do, at least easily, so reviews from a range of sources are a useful if not essential part of the process in trying to steer ourselves in the right direction
Listening at a dealer is only one source:
- The setup, in particular the room and speakers, are very different at each dealer. How will it sound in my room at home? It only gives a first impression on gross problems of a device.
- Psychoacoustic effects: the new and the expensive seem to sound different, mostly better. There are a lot of impressions coming your way.
Besides measurements the most reliable way is to have many people listening and then compare notes.
20k$ is unfortunately a lot of money to me. It’s not just buying the wrong shirt.
Deficiencies grow into dissatisfactions quickly and trigger the next purchase. Can’t afford, I want to keep things long term.
You may find one dealer who is willing to let you try the Bartok at home; this is not a cheap model. Just ask! If the answer is no, just change dealer, they are not worthy…
Also, how the dCS Dac is configured can have a very big impact on the sound:
- Not to get into the filter & mapper debate but these do make subtle differences - and for me at least took a bit of time to understand.
- The other is whether the dac is used as a digital pre or connected to an analogue pre. This can have a very significant impact on system sound.
One option with the Bartok is to test with a pair of headphones you are familiar with that can driven by the Bartok. e.g. the Senn HD600 and 800s can be driven to their maximum potential with the Bartok.
Reviews can be tricky and measurements have challenges as well. But having owned multiple dacs from (entry level Esoteric, desktop dac from RME, and a chord mojo2), the dCS sounds different than all of them and more correct for the kind of classical music programme I enjoy. I believe it comes down to how ring dac randomizes errors - a physcoacoustic affect that is difficult to measure perhaps
I agree with @Ermos, it is a lot of money for me as well. It took a very very long time to save for mine.
best to take one’s time.
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The internet is useful for many things. This does not include YouTube Hifi reviews. It’s all just clickbait, controversial and partial reviews are needed to monetise.
Online reviews aren’t worth the paper they are written on IMO
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Omni
I agree. The only review worth my time is the one with my own two ears. Who cares what someone else thinks about a product.
The minions on the net seem to go from site to site until they find someone whose ideas align with their own.
Love the your tongue in cheek last line.
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I share this view for most things above a certain $, which is not universal on this forum. Some like to tinker, test, and try new gear frequently. If that’s you, do it! : ) Unfortunately, I just don’t have the time. I research the best I can, through people I trust, and then buy and hold.
In this case, I recommend you focus on the used market. In general, the audiophile community takes very good care of their equipment. As a result one often can find “near perfect” used models out there. If you know what you are looking for you can snipe good gear at a good price.
Cheers
Dvs states that they support freedom of speech as a basic human right in a free democracy. Anyway they have closed all forum threads in this forum, when DCS customers want to discuss what has happened and how DCS has handled the situation??? I have been a loyal DCS supporter and my first product was the Elgar. Now I Have just upgraded to the Rossini Apex and clock. I will sell my DCS equipment, and will never purges a DCS product agin. This is no longer about how the Bartok Sound or do not. There are many decent audio entusiasts here and all the best to all of you, I will delete my profile after this post. Regards Ole.
Completely untrue. If that were so the how did you post your message? dCS did what @James said. There were 5 threads running simultaneously on the same topic so he closed the duplicates leaving the original thread ( this one) open. The other 4 threads may still be read however.
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What @PAR said
This. And the obvious fact that YT HiFi evangelists could easily be biased. They make money in one way: clicks and views. Since most people can’t afford hi-end, they make a living out of making fun of those who buy expensive stuff and telling folks who listen to 1000 bucks systems that not only they have the best possible sound: they are also the smartest people on the planet.
Out of curiosity, I tested one of the cheap cables they maintain are the best available on the market against my Ansuz C2 speaker cables. I am still laughing. And the same happened when I compared my Rossini with a “unanimously acclaimed” 900$ DAC.
Obviously, they (anyone of them and nobody in particular) could also get an additional stream of revenue from paid reviews, both favorable (push some component) and unfavorable (kill a competitor). But we know that all of them are totally honest people and would never fall for that, don’t we?
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We all have biases. I am sure most owners of particular pieces of equipment are biased in favour of those pieces, perhaps it suits their particular tastes sonically and possibly aesthetically, or simply because they spent money on it.
I agree that no single review from anywhere should be taken with any great regard, but this does not automatically make online reviews not useful.
Access to all levels of gear is often limited or non-existent depending on where you are.
So for many of us reviews are a very important part of the decision making process at least in steering our direction.
Even for those who are able to demo in person the dealer room and partnering gear does not necessarily translate to their home listening environment
I think that blanket statements on reviewers falls into the traps of the current world where everything is supposedly black and white rather than choosing to see the shades of grey in between and at least acknowledging a different view may also have merit
the meaning of any particular word or phrase used by any person describing sonics does not necessarily align with someone elses meaning or understanding of the same word in that context.
lastly, I am not completely disagreeing either. I think owners or potential owners of DCS, MSB etc can safely ignore anything “CheapAudioMan” has to say about Dacs
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I totally agree. When I see some dispute between a company and a reviewer I usually look at the facts. I’m not going to take the reviewer’s part just because he’s the “weak side”. After all, the company has commercial interests, and the same goes for the reviewer.
That’s what makes things complicated. Not black and white as you say.
Then something happens: turns out that a specific reviewer has commercial interests in one product, and the obvious pattern emerges: don’t pay 13K for THAT: pay just 3K for THIS one which measures better. Case closed. Reviewer erased from my favorite list. If the 3K DAC really sounds so good, which could still be the case, my ears will tell me when I have it on loan.
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