Hi,
I have 2 sytems at home and one is using MSB discrete and the other dCS bartok apex.
One big advantage of MSB is it has a wonderful remote (compact and made of metal).
Well, after comparing the sound, I am leaning on dCS, which has more detailed/accurate and subdued mid and bass.
As I already have a bartok apex, may this time I will go for Rossini or Vivaldi. Frankly, I love the sound of the bartok apex so much i wonder if Rossini or Vivaldi can produce a noticeable sonic difference withor without each additional clocks.
Linn and chord are also under consideration. My preference is a detailed, clear and not warm sound. Therefore R2R / Tube dac are out.
I wanna hear from readers with real experience updrading from bartok apex ^^
dCS ensure that each step up in their hierarchy of units produces results that are both measurably and audibly improvements. After all most new dCS products are sold by demonstration.
However Vivaldi in particular should not be thought of as a separate DAC unit. It is a system. To produce the functionality of Bartok with Vivldii means it is necessary to own both DAC and Upsampler ( the latter also contains the streaming capabilities). In the past one could pair Vivaldi DAC with Network Bridge but sadly the latter is no longer in production. You might be able to find a used one.
Just a quick comment on this as it is something I have learned since joining and there may be others out there who aren’t aware. The V/R/B generation of products were released top-down. The Vivaldi was first and was the new statement product 13 years ago. It represented the best that was possible at that time without any particular cost compromises. Once Vivaldi was out, engineering turned their attention to where costs (and therefore prices) could be reduced while making the minimum impact on sound quality.
That is why the three products share so many parts: the whole DAC and output stages, clock crystals, transformers etc. Essentially the differences are in execution, such as numbers of chassis, numbers of power supplies, degree of sophistication in supporting circuitry, casing materials, casing construction etc. As such the aim is to make the differences between the ranges as small as possible rather than “ensuring” there are differences as you move up. If something in one of the higher models were to make no difference to the SQ it would never have been there in the first place.
One of my colleagues describes this process of “boiling” away cost but retaining the flavor (SQ) as “sublimation” which I think is a nice analogy.
1 Like
Thanks for the info.
Having used dCS network bridge and bartok apex’ s internal renderer, I decided to go with autender due to its analytical sonic signature.
As Vivaldi apex clock/ upsampler/ streamer unit can be added later, I just wonder how Vivaldi apex 1 piece unit sounds comparing Rossini apex + clock (2 piece, roughly the same price as Vivaldi 1 unit)
Clearly moving up to b->r->v follows law of “diminishing return”.
Having said that, I wonder if it would be wise to go up the ladder where the top Vivaldi was completed 13 years ago.
Maybe, waiting for scaled down Varese variant makes sense? (Don’t know when)
Vivaldi APEX, Stereophile Product of the Year 2023, was released two years ago.
1 Like
Thanks for the reminder.
As a bartok apex user, I wonder which would sound noticeablely better; rossini+ clock or Vivaldi 1 piece ? (If Vivaldi can be played alone)
The Vivaldi One can…
2 Likes
Yes, the Vivaldi DAC has internal Clocks and can operate without the supporting Vivaldi Master Clock, if thats what you were asking.
However it cannot be played on its own as can Bartok or Rossini by streaming a service such as Qobuz, Tidal, Deezer or Spotify. Vivaldi DAC has no streaming board and requires an external source ( streamer, optical disc transport or both). So you cannot just substitute Bartok with Vivaldi DAC, you need more.
Pete, you’re forgetting the context, Simon’s using an Aurender for the streaming function. He’s asking only about the DAC functionality.
Thanks. I was unaware of that. Has he got two of them?
To be clear, I already have a Aurender n30 hooked up to a bartok apex and a n20 to a msb discrete. I prefer aurender to bartok’s internal renderer due to Aurender’ analytical, less bass sonic signature.
I plan to upgrade msb to dcs.
Now I know Vivaldi apex alone can work with aurender, and my question is comparing rossini apex+rossini clock and vivaldi apex, which sounds more dCS-ish?
My personal recommendation all else being equal would be to go for a Vivaldi DAC over a Rossini DAC+Clock. It has the added advantage that you could if you wanted to subsequently add a Vivaldi Clock and take things up another notch.
Upgradability of Vivaldi must be a bonus to avoid a redundant investment on a dac.
That being said, I am happy to hear Vivali alone outperforms Rossini/clock combo^^
Thanks Simon. That makes things much clearer for me.
As Andrew seas in his earlier post, all of the dCS DAC range are based on Vivaldi, use many similar parts etc. The major difference is in execution. This lower products in the range retain as much as is possible of Vivaldi as far as is possible at lower price points. So as Vivaldi Apex is the mother ship ( as it were) go for that. I don’t like to make subjective SQ comparisons as everyone has their own preferences . For the record I have Vivaldi Apex and, given the money, I would buy it again if necessary.
Yes but to avoid disappointment it doesn’t mean everything may be upgraded nor that this will be indefinite. History indicates that, generally, upgrades cease when a product is withdrawn from production.
About upgrades, yes indeed…
You sure make me crave for a Vivladi apex…