There is now a reason for the sudden appearance of this issue. It is affecting other manufacturer’s MQA streams from Tidal too. See link.
The reason behind this is that Tidal have unilaterally changed how they are identifying Tidal Master files. So the cause does not lie with Mosaic but that the change by Tidal has resulted in this outcome.
So either Tidal should revert to the previous situation or there could be a hiatus for a period while streamer manufacturers revise their software and issue updates. I would guess that for us folks the latter would logically be rolled in with the anticipated Mosaic v. 1.1.2 revision and if so I would not anticipate a particularly swift conclusion, at least from past experience.
And this is exactly why I can’t fathom spending money on a Lumin or Aurender or other such streamers that don’t have digital in, no matter how good their DAC section is. If something transcends the ability of the manufacturer to address in firmware, one is essentially stuck with an expensive brick if proper streaming isn’t attainable. At least dCS is a proper DAC that happens to have a streamer on board and worst case can always be fed Tidal MQA via USB from a computer.
Yes. It is important also not to rely entirely upon applications that run on big tech firmware like Apple iOS and Android. They have previously sunk many applications by unilaterally changing the specifications often with little or no prior notification. Mosaic is unfortunately subject to this as well as the decisions of other partners such as Tidal or airable. Such changes cost a huge amount for small companies to implement sometimes forcing them to abandon whole projects or installations that their customers already rely on. I had a couple of useful apps cease to be supported when Apple would only allow 64 bit architecture for iOS.
So I keep a 13" laptop which is small enough to sit on my equipment rack should I need to revert to pc audio and even if necessary ( pray not) connect to Vivaldi Upsampler with USB.
Unfortunately true, but on the bright side there should be no reason that Mosaic’s functionality cannot be replicated in a web interface, should it get to such a point. After all, Mosaic most likely is just a front end for APIs hosted on the dCS unit.
Unrelated to this, but kudos to dCS for making the app run on the local network and not via cloud like many models nowadays. This way, if one’s Internet goes offline, one can still manage the dCS and remain able to listen to their upnp or other local sources.
This is generally correct and I must add that this change was made without ANY advance notice.
Some manufacturers will be able to fix this problem quickly as they elected to implement MQA by having the MQA decoder always in place in the processing pipeline. This would allow them to make a couple of minor code changes to return to prior functionality. In our case (and many others) we elected to have the MQA decoder in the pipeline only when MQA content was being played. If TIDAL doesn’t roll back this change then it will take us (and many others) some time to fix this issue.
At this point we are at the mercy of TIDAL and are applying pressure in any way we can to get them to roll back their change. We completely understand if it must happen at some point, but they need to give us some time to implement a different method of MQA identification.
We (dCS) will keep you posted as information becomes available.
Our sincerest apologies for this issue as we are well aware that a large number of our customers have been enjoying our MQA implementation in their daily listening. We are doing everything that we can in order to restore this functionality, but since this is out of our hands there is only so much that we can do.
I have no problem with normal polite dialogue, but you injected a straw argument; I was not asking Andrew about the Mosaic fix vs. Tidal rolling back the changes, which you refer to as two alternative paths of action; I was specifically contrasting those to his last paragraph, which you omitted from your answer (emphasis below mine)
In my interpretation—and granted, us Yanks have been accused of not speaking English in years—something that is out of one’s hands and only being able to do so much about it does not guarantee that it will actually be possible. Hence my request, to Andrew, to clarify.
If you are less specific in regard to the highlighting of Andrew’s text e.g.:
[quote=“Andrew, post:45, topic:2583”] order to restore this functionality but since this is out of our hands there is only so much that we can do.
This makes my point. The restoration of the functionality i.e. restoring what existed previously ( not a new fix) is out of their hands as that will be a decision for Tidal.
So my conclusion was that there is nothing for Andrew to answer. I appreciate your differing view.
I’m trying to figure out what this means. Every single Lumin machine has at least a network connection (digital in) and I believe each has a bidirectional USB port. What is it you think they are missing for purposes of rectifying the Tidal problem? Or that makes their architecture any more susceptible to being bricked by a Tidal/Qobuz/Spotify/etc. technical change? Further, nothing about the architecture would prevent one from streaming all of one’s local files even if somehow the machine couldn’t receive Tidal any more. Lumin continues to support all their equipment. I have an A1 I bought “way back when,” and it still receives firmware updates.
Hi Greg, Lumin X1 of course has an Ethernet interface (two, actually) for streaming and local upnp playback.
However, Lumin X1 does not have any sort of digital audio in. The USB is strictly output. So in the context of this thread, while the Tidal MQA issue persists, and presumably applies to X1 also, I would not have been able to listen to MQA material had I owned an X1. With dCS, I can run the Tidal app on a laptop, where MQA is decoded, and then send USB audio to the DAC section of my Bartok. A bit convoluted, but perfectly workable as long as it is something temporary, and normal Mosaic functionality is restored at some point.
It’s funny in a way, because I had intended to buy a Lumin X1 before the Bartok. At one point it dawned upon me that it lacked digital audio in, and relied entirely on streaming sources, which made it captive to whatever could be accomplished in firmware. A computer is much more flexible and future proof in that regard, and can always send USB audio to the DAC, which made me instantly go back to the drawing board and ultimately ended in dCS land.
Thanks for that clarification. There is some confusion about the functionality of the USB port in the press. Lumin refers to it as a digital output, with the ability to also read files from storage. Absolute Sound, among others perhaps, interpreted this as digital I/O. In any case, that’s a fair point and something a purchaser should know. Just the same, in the context of this particular problem, it is my understanding of the issue that the problem is at Tidal. It’s not clear to me that running Tidal on one’s laptop solves this particular problem—and I wasn’t going to reactivate my subscription just to find out—but, assuming it does somehow solve this particular problem, why not just then stream from the laptop to the X1? For that matter, just stream from one’s phone. So long as a box, be it a Lumin or DCS or whatever, can receive audio over network, it seems to me this is a mistaken concern. I am still unclear on how this problem illustrates a reason not to buy a Lumin (Autender is different).
You’re absolutely correct, Tidal introduced this problem, from what I read both here and elsewhere.
Tidal’s own mobile and desktop apps are unaffected—that’d be quite the embarrassment on their behalf. Tidal running on a laptop will correctly decode MQA and send the audio via USB to the dCS. Lumin X1 cannot ingest USB audio, hence my problem. I purchased Bartok solely for the purpose of an all-in-one solution to stream Tidal MQA.
This isn’t a workable solution in my case, as I get notifications on it all the time. It would make for a lousy listening experience.
So, use an iPad or something. I think my point remains valid. This is not a use case that demonstrates buying a Lumin is a mistake. Again, Aurender is different.
Well, that is a specific use case; absent a headphone amp and the USB input, Lumin X1 and Bartok are functionally equivalent in this regard. Nothing would prevent a user from streaming to a Lumin over network using the temporary solution you described above.