Yes, i am afraid too…
2 Likes
Diego, before doing anything you must listen. There are many dCS dealers in France so book an audition of Bartok, Rossini and with/without the clock for either. It does not matter which amplification or speakers are used ( within reason) you will hear the difference ( or not - I am not proposing that dCS is for everyone).
I am currently under the impression that you have learned about dCS and ( for that matter) Dan D’Agostino products but without any experience of them. You have not written about hearing them so have you just fancied them because of magazine reviews and the elevated price? Bluntly for all I know you may well dislike both in reality which is not a good way of spending € 40K . Yes finding a retailer who stocks what you want in one place is going to be impossible. You will have to split up your search possibly over time. If the digital front end is the most immediately important to you then just settle that. Then move on to amplification later if , indeed, it actually needs changing. We all have dreams but sometimes our dreams turn out to be only that.
I had the Rossini and Clock then moved to the Vivaldi DAC, upsampler and clock. My opinion is different than many others here, I have never found a significant benefit with the clock in either setup. I woul go with the Rossini sans clock over the Barton with clock.
As a “source first” zealot, I’m still using $5k speakers. An extremely popular combo is Rossini + Diablo 300. Local dealer believes it’s nearly as good as the $45k D’Agostino integrated. Not sure what “nearly” means but I trust his opinion since he refuses, for my own good, to sell me Naim components.
As a deeply indoctrinated Naim cult member, I’ve neither heard either brand nor have I the ability to resell any of my Din interconnects. However, I’m inclined to buy a Diablo 300 without a demo to pair with the Rossini. Since I own Alibaba stock, this shouldn’t be taken lightly.
Nice thing is that people around here like to use $30 cables with their Vivaldis.
1 Like
I cannot disageee. There is no objective or absolute way of listening. It is all about the weather, the mood we are in, the listening habits, the gears we are used to, the way your parents listened to music when we were a child, the kind of music we listen, if we are used to go to concerts and how often, and finally the room we are in… No one listens like another one…
But I am not sure that going to a shop is the only way to make a choice. Here again, and as you said there are a lot of limiting factors to consider. How do I feel in the shop, is there noise, how the acoustic is, do I have plenty of time, can I chose the music I listen to, Can I choose the speakers if i have come for the source (to me the speakers sound signature, if differing from your taste, impedes).
I must admit that I am not used to choosing and buying such things. So you are right, I should not underestmate the value of going to a very good shop, I’ll try to find one or two, thank you.
1 Like
I have never been to a French audio shop but I doubt that they operate in a very different manner to others in Europe. dCS dealers are well chosen and , as they are selling very expensive digital equipment, you will find that they are likely to pair the dCS with the highest quality amplification and speakers that they have. As an example my dealer here in London demonstrated using Reference level Audio Research amps and Wilson Sasha DAWs . A good dealer should leave you to listen at your leisure to your own recordings. Remember not only to take some favourites but include the worst recording that you own to see if what you are auditioning improves your opinion of it. In any case after a few minutes you will acclimatise to the new ( to you) room acoustics and the other changes. The dealer will have done his best to provide a test system that shows off the dCS to its best advantage.
It probably isn’t. The best way is to have the dealer bring the intended purchase to your home. Even better is to bring it to your home and leave it with you for a week. Unfortunately to enjoy that level of service normally requires a long established relationship with a dealer situated locally who knows that you are a genuine customer who is likely to buy and not a time waster. So otherwise going to a shop is the only available compromise.
1 Like
I am very happy with my Rossini (plus clock) and Diablo 300 combo, with SabrinaX
2 Likes
That’s exactly what my dealer recommended to me. Just not sure about Wilson speakers. Never heard them and won’t unless I buy a pair. Fortunately Alibaba just hit another multiyear low so new speakers aren’t an immediate concern.
My current speakers have been called marmite more times than I not. Bought them sans demo and learned to love them. They’re literally the only speakers I’ve ever spent more than a couple of hours listening to so I lack meaningful reference. They’re also rare in the US and I’d hate to part with them without being confident on the Replacements.
Really need a home demo to write the check. That won’t happen because my dealer knows about Alibaba. He’s a good guy though since he talked me down from the $30k 552 preamp. As long as I live I’ll never forget that selfless act of compassion.
Well my local dealer has an expensive well treated demo room. Everything sounds amazing in that space. The purchase of expensive audio components should include lengthy demo in your room. Many customers are buying $150k speakers so my $20-40k speaker options are downright affordable by their standards. Having demurred at my offer to pay with Alibaba options, they politely suggested I examine the selection of loudspeakers available at my local Best Buy. Jokes on them since I haven’t a Best Buy within the four walls adjacent to my lighthouse which I’ve neglected to tend.
1 Like
Perhaps a thorough examination of the question “why hifi” and “why now” would help with the process. If the past nine years could be relived, I’d never buy a speaker system. Getting optimal sound can be time consuming, expensive, and possibly impossible. Sorry I forgot you have speakers already. For $22k a Bartok based headphone system is likely more than 98% would ever need. This assumes headphones are of interest. My first 40 years was spent only with headphones and I have a tendency to believe everybody likes them.
2 Likes
Hello Diego,
As people already said, you should definitely listen and compare before buying.
I live in France just like you, and my experience with hifi shops here is that most of them will be happy to recommend and let you listen and compare the products they sell. They are willing to satisfy their customers, and avoid to sell unriable brands.
Now, I hit a couple of issues with a Bartok myself: I got the DAC and Network boards changed earlier this year because of distorsions, and got my unit finally swapped by a brand new one in September due to remaining (yet rare) freeze issues. No remaining problem since then.
At least dCS has a pretty serious support service, and they are closely watching at the complaints their users post on this forum.
BTW, I owned a DAC from Chord Electronics by the past.
Regarding just reliability, things were worse for what concerns me…
After two units changed in less than a year, with 2-3 months delays to swap the DAC each time (always due to recurring USB connection defects), I finally gave up with Chord and sold mine just after it came back again from their factory.
Erwan
2 Likes
The room is the first gear…
The more I learn about audiophile listening, the more I want to spend on the acoustic of the room. Actually my idea is to build the room up from scratch, using my renewed passion for DIY and wood construction. My ears deserve the best, and as you said, everything sounds great in a well treated room. So I made up my mind: I will spend my money on building the room I want, and keep my current gears, until I save some more money for the brand new 2026 dCS Tchaikovski…
2 Likes
I am sorry I don’t like headphones. I bought one of the best (I initially opted for the susvaras, but it would have taken a 10000 £ bill for the whole set; 5 or 6 times less than a speaker system, but oddly enough I gave up the idea). I nonetheless took the Utopias with the Hugo2; the system sounds great, maybe a little bit too analytical, but I don’t feel good with them, as if I was stuck in a tiny box. I may have chosen the wrong ones (too heavy?), but still I am not sure I can experience anything close to a live experience with something pressing my ears and my head. I like to feel light when I listen…
So be it for a 60 000 euro Investment!
Let’s say that i am paying for my lifelong health insurance…
1 Like
As to reliability: bought a used dCS Debussy and used it for 5 years. No issues, excellent sound. Replaced it with a Vivaldi earlier this year, also used. No issues, awesome sound. No clock with the Debussy, Vivaldi clock with the new rig. Haven’t tried the Vivaldi w/o the clock - with it the sound is so extraordinary that I’m not motivated. My only experience with the Rossini and the Bartok is at trade shows. They both sounded good - but don’t have the “at home” experience to comment further.
1 Like
HD800 has the best headstage if you don’t want the closed in feeling. I’m considering ditching my speaker system completely. Need to spend additional $70k to get speaker system where the bartok + HD800 was. For $8k one can buy the SR 1A ribbon headphones with the necessary amp. Apparently it’s very close to speaker system.
“apparently, the Bartok, and even more the Rossini are way beyond the Dave when it comes to musicality.”
I’ve had a Rossini with clock, Debussy with clock , DAVE with MScaler all the above mentioned refinements, Denafrips top unit, PS Audio top DAC, and others. There is absolutely no “way beyond” with any of them.
I respectfully submit you have fallen victim, as we all have at some point, to believing what you read in reviews and on forums. My conclusion is they all sound much more alike than different. If you are looking for affirmation that a DCS is the best choice then you are on the right forum as all of the DCS lovers here will gladly do that for you. However, as I’m sure you know, only you can say for sure how it sounds in your system and there is only one way to do that.
It was a good idea to check on the customer service side of it though.
The Bartok HPA is the best sound I’ve ever heard and was way beyond both my previous Berkeley Reference and my current Rossini + clock. This is weird because I believe the Rossini is a significant improvement over Bartok. All hifi is subjective and some aspects that might be trivial to some can be highly significant to others. The Bartok is the first dac I’ve ever experienced that, for some reason, triggered a neurological response unlike anything I’d experienced since probably my early 20’s. It doesn’t just sound great it feels amazing. Never even considered this type of response was possible from a dac. To me it is a completely different experience. The difference between the dac in my iPhone and my Hugo is less significant than between the Berkeley and the Bartok. There is something unique with the dcs sound. I know it is possible for a dac to be “way beyond” another similarly positioned dac. Maybe you’ve just not found the right dac?
Now I want my Bartok back…
1 Like
I’ve owned my Bartok for about 2 months so far with zero issues. Works perfectly.
2 Likes
If you loved the Bartok that much (and are considering sticking with headphones), then don’t discount a Bartok with a Vivaldi Clock. I had those as my front end for a few months, and they were just fantastic.
4 Likes
You are right, and the only way is to buy it and try it at home for some time ; then I you are not happy or if you found better, you sell it. This is what most audiophiles do, and this is what I probably do in the future.
I don’t feel like a victim when I listen to someone else’s opinion ; as long as I know who he is and why he does that; as long as I bear in my mind that his mind goes in a certain way. When one says that listening is a personal experience, one should not forget that there is no such thing as “personal”, since eveything that constitute our tastes is conditionned by our past, our relations.
The point I would like to make is that there is a pattern that undelies our listening habits, and when I read things on forums or on reviews, even when I listen to a retailer, I try to identify this pattern and see if it fits mine. I never listen to reviewers that are only fan of electronic music for example: it is not my world… In classicaI music, I take baroc music lovers and reviewers’ opinion with precaution, because this is not the music I particularly enjoy, and I know that some systems perfectly fit this need for harmony and balance, while they are unfit for other kind of music.
Finally, I think there is no such thing as end game gears; there always will be better, more refined, more this and more that. But we can decide to end our chase, and be content with what we got. I just want to make sure that this time comes soon enough by making the right choice, and I think I could make it while reading forums and reviews as well…
2 Likes