Importance audiosource

Audio Systems
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I would like to share my recent experience.

I had an extensive listening session with TAD ME1 and Vitus SIA025 mkII using various sources, including streaming via Grimm MU-1 and CDs via the TAD D700 CD player.

Listened to various tracks both through streaming and CDs, including downloaded streams from Qobuz.

I’m surprised that I settled for Qobuz and Tidal streaming in recent years. The sound from CDs is incredibly good – the detail is striking, something I feel is lacking in streaming.

Do you come to the same conclusion?
What are your thoughts?

Warm regards,
Ivo

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Hi,

My experience is exactly the opposite. Actually I would have said what you mentioned 6 or 8 years ago. When streaming was average quality. But now streaming services have hires files.
I cannot understand how is it possible to get more details from files containing less details ? You have less information in a 16bit file than in a 24 bit encoded file. With the cd you add to that the noise of the motor and vibrations impact more mechanical parts in movement…my experience is that recently, the streaming has become far better than the cd.

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I read this sort of thing a lot Ivo so I am perfectly prepared to believe it. Unfortunately I can’t really comment with any observations of my own as I have not had a CD transport in my system for 17 years now, since I sold my Verdi in fact. That was not a SQ-driven decision but an article of faith. I saw streaming as the future and embraced the convenience. My CD collection had also expanded to the reasonable limit of the house room I could devote to it (I needed to keep them accessible for several years after I could play them in order to be able to rip them). I actually found a couple of pictures of part of it on the interweb, you get the idea.

Actually (sentimental interlude) I have a very fond memory from this period of Strutslet #1 who was about 3 at the time. One evening I was sitting in my home office ripping CDs and she came in in her pyjamas, bum sticking out because of the huge nappy/daiper underneath, and jumped up on my lap.
– What are you doing Daddy?
– I’m ripping CDs sweetie. {{puzzled look}} This is a CD, it has music on it.
I held one up on the tip of my finger and showed it to her. She just burst out laughing uncontrollably. Like “Physical media? Srsly? In 2006??”. That’s my girl.

However what I do know from a lot of personal experience is that “everything matters” applies to streaming as well as silver discs (as it does to most aspects of the audio reproduction chain). Only a few really serious companies (like dCS) try to push the envelope on understanding what the “everything” is, and find new ways to measure and improve it (DMAIC). This is the point I think many of the “armchair experts” on forums like ASR miss. And digital is not “just” digital, as I tried to make a case for in a post over on the Roon forum a year-or-so ago.

I think the rub here is that what the “everything” is is not particularly well understood yet for streaming, whereas in the 40 years we’ve had the CD more progress has been made. This lack of understanding opens the door to exciting innovation but also to snake oil peddlers. And leaves all of us fumbling a little bit in the dark.

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Hi Chris,

Well, to be honest, I had the same approach and thought exactly like that, but I still trust my ears. I know the differences between digital and analog with records. I didn’t expect this either, but I am flabbergasted and just can’t comprehend it, hence this thread.

The session was for the purchase of the TAD ME1, but suddenly a new challenge has emerged…

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@struts001

Same here, I also thought that streaming would be at least just as good nowadays. I’ve sold most of my CDs as well. Fortunately, I’ve kept the 50 most beautiful albums solely for display in my listening space. I no longer have a CD player, but after this experience, I’m going to delve back into it. In January, I have the second session, and I’ll listen to see if my ears haven’t fooled me after all.

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Haha. I just couldn’t part with mine, I boxed them up and put them into storage. More of my horcruxes…

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For reference, the set that I have listened to.

IMG_0135
IMG_01354032×3024 2.71 MB

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Audioporn! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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M system is build with dCS Bartók Apex, darTZell 8550 MK2 ( in my opinion the best amp at lest for 160K euros, but that’s just my opinion based on my experience , integrated and pre and power), Metronome T5 CD transport and Wilson Alexia 2.

I dont listen to music to often to
In CD but i have hundreds of Cd´s, because the streaming convenience and i honestly think the playback from the CD give me the better sound quality. But because the convenience of streaming that was my favorite format.

But about quality my thoughts change a little, in the past i had all my system cables with TYR2 from the wall to the Nordost QB8MK2 and then the power cables Heimdall 2. The XLR and speakers cables also TYR2. The sound was very very good.

But in the last months i did an up-grade on power cables, i had the Odin1 from the wall to the QB8 MK2 and put the TYR2 from the QB8 MK2 to the amp and Dac. The power cord to the Cd transport still the same because I rarely use.

But i then, 1 week ago, i up-grade my system with the Nordost QKore6 to grounding the QB8, the Dac, Amp and i had the Qnet and Qsource with premium cable being the Qsource power by the QB8MK2. The Net cables I keep the Heimdall from the Qnet to the Dac and bought the blue heaven from the router to the Qnet.

Well, i just have an advise, before upgrade the amp or source, go to the power cables and grounding, its a big big diference, more than you get having an dac or amp up-grade, i have no words…

I keep the Heimdall 2 power cord to connect from the QB8 to the Qsource and with the Qnet, wow! Just Wow!! Never thought I would feel such a diference. I just advice you to give the Qnet and QKore 7 days of burn in, after that you will just seat in your normal listening place, turn on the system and ask yourself, hey, is this the same system?But it is and you will be surprise with increase of sound quality. With this i dont wanna mean that if i did the same cable and Grouding up-grade on the CD transport it will not be better, but i just never heard my system like this before.

My question now is, and now, if i change all my power cables, the XLR cable and speaker cable how far it will improve?

I love the freedom of streaming and this steps and up-grades made me see and listen to streaming in a diferent way, the best way i never thought was possible.

A lot of words but at the end i have to say, with the right system the streaming will perform to a very very high level. With this like i said, i don’t mean that with the same investment in the CD transport the sound would not be better, just arguing that with the advantages of streaming with the right gear you will fell in heaven, no matter if its CD, streaming or vinil…. Just invest to get the best of the format you use and appreciate more.

Wishes of good listening seasons :wink:

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I had the same conclusion a few years ago until I paid lot of attention to streaming chain. I admit that I have many boxes in the chain but here are the changes that I did and to me, streaming on my system is at par with CD.

  1. No SMPS power supply between Internet service provider’s first entry point at home and my system. All these SMPSs have been replaced with high quality Linear Power Supplies from Sean Jacobs. This includes the power supply to my computer or in fact anything that sits in between.

  2. Since my source is a Windows computer, I use Innuos PhoenixUSB and PhoenixNet.

  3. I use pro-grade equipment from RME to connect my computer to DAC (Debussy)

  4. These pro-grade equipments have clock input so, my entire system is clocked by Rossini clock.

Trust me, power supply is the key.

I myself feel that my setup is clumsy but I have tried several time to go back to single box streamer but none can match what I hear from my system.

Couple of sample from Spotify -

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I use an Uptone JS2 LPS for the Roon Nucleus and another Uptone JS2 LPS for the pair of TP-Link optical isolation converters I use. I can vouch for the very positive impact of using LPS for these purposes on streaming sound. Whether it goes up to the level of a high end CD player I couldn’t say. It has been a while since I last used a CD player. The choice of music available and the ease of streaming from QOBUZ make it unlikely that I would want to go back to playing CDs.

I have been toying with the idea of getting an LPS each for the Verizon FIOS modem and the router from which I connect an ethernet cable to the Nucleus and Bartok DAC. These are currently each fed by their Verizon-supplied SMPS, which in turn are plugged into a good balanced power transformer. Does your experience (and any one else’s too of course) suggest that the last step of replacing these two SMPS with LPS would be a worthwhile one?

Thanks

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I think, yes. I recently powered my AT&T router with a decent LPS and it calmed down the system. The system sounds less pushy and digital that enhances realism in presentation.

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Ok. Im reading this and trying to discern whether there is something here for me. I have two streaming sources. The internet (qobuz)comes in by dish through a ubiquity dream router then passes through a ubiquity switch for distribution. All on original power supplies. Multiple cat 5 leads from switch 1 travel over 100 ft each to a few different locations. 1) a windows based nas which is isolated by 3 feet of fiber and a second to my media room which enters another ubiquity switch. Qobuz comes directly as described from switch 1 and enters switch 2. The nas also feeds switch 2. Switch 2 is again isolated from vivaldi by 3 feet of fiber then to a short hi grade cat 5 to vivaldi. (Except possibly the last fiber converter before the vivaldi), How can noise from a power supply enter the vivaldi. Serious question. @Anupc ?

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Aren’t those fiber to Ethernet converters powered by SMPS based power supplies? If yes, the best way to find the answer is by trying yourself. Try a decent power supply such SBooster or Farad on the box that is closest to Vivaldi. If you don’t hear the difference then you are lucky.

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It absolutely can’t.

No upstream element PSU noise is going to travel over any Ethernet fiber connection. The only possible noise is from the media converter next to your Vivaldi, especially if its PSU is plugged into the same AC Power point as your Vivaldi.

All other PSU noise upstream has ZERO consequence.

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@Anupc Thank you sir. thats what i was thinking. I have vivaldi (actually all source devices) plugged into adept response power cleaner on a dedicated line. The power supply for the converter may be plugged into the wall on a non dedicated circuit. All non dedicated circuits in this room are on a single isolated and dedicated panel so the power supply could conceptually get noise from the tv (on a transparent audio power cleaner) and tv elevator (not used while listening) the ubiquity switch power supply before the vivaldi and the 2 fiber converter power supplies. I may have 1 space on the AR but likely not. Looks like I have a potential leak with noise coming in the power side to this device. Thanks @Anupc and thank you @hifimckinney. I will look to remedy this. B

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