The comments about changing ethernet cables by the dealer to make it sound right, certainly goes against what dCS state, they say cables like this make difference?
I would looking at that picture, get it off the floor for certain, and move from behind speaker.
Probably connect all the boxes with the standard dCS cables for now.
Then see how it goes.
We all know it should sound better than the rossini, the amount and difference between then isn’t going to be huge, but it should be there.
I still stand with my first post on why it sounded great one day and not the next, honeymoon period or just being excited about it all, that’s all it takes as your mood at the time is high, the brain is a strange and complicated thing and plays tricks with us all the time.
The only real way to compare them both, is get them both set up as best you can, play the same track at the same time and switch between them and the difference will be plane to hear or not, dealers hate this sort of thing as there is no hiding, they much prefer the leave it for weeks and then switch back, as this gives you and more importantly your brain time to adjust to it all and not one of us can remember exactly what something sounded like 10 seconds ago, when such small differences are trying to be heard.
You have them both sitting there and the perfect opportunity to do the simple switch test, once you get them both set up better.
I wouldn’t bother about trying to split them for now as I see the rossini isn’t, but I feel going if you go with the vivaldi, you need to get them split and on a good rack, as part of the gains should be because of the box separation.
Anyway good luck with it all
Thanks for your detailed response and thoughts, much appreciated
Yes, according dCS there shouldn’t be much of a difference between Ethernet cables connected to a dCS set. Well I had a lot of comparisons in the past here and for sure I could hear differences. Even blind folded. But this isn’t the discussion here and I don’t want to start it either
By changing the Ethernet cables at both sets from Audio Quest Vodka to Crystal Connect Monet was a huge improvement. The Vivaldi set benefits most for this change.
I can imagine the cables, interlinks and now the power cables direct connected to the Transparent Reference Power Isolator will bring me closer to the next step.
For sure the location of the set is not ideal but for now it have to be like this as not much space left anymore.
Just to show off, a picture of the wall behind the set for acoustic improvements
Let me provide some (long winded) context… I built a system from scratch when moving to dCS. The only carry-over was the Focal Utopia headphones when I began (now Dan Clark Stealth). Ideally I wanted to enjoy the benefits dCS brings to the table and get back to the listening experience enjoyed on the prior Naim system with speakers in a purpose built room. With the prior setup I was able to melt into the music. Be in it, be washed away by it or rest in it. Making the switch to headphones only was an uncertain move in this regard - it was unclear whether it is possible to get back those qualities. After a lot of support from the dCS community, lots of experimentation and system building things are falling into place now. The Black Cat Cables were the missing link to enable that leap forward in music reproduction. I want to say that it was a system building process and the whole counts, not just those cables. However, those cables for sure unlocked the potential to get to where I wanted. That step forward was one of the large ones in the process of building the system.
If we did an immediate A/B test between the prior speaker system and the current headphone system the reaction probably would be “What the h*** is he talking about? That’s nowhere near.” Yes and no. Yes, a soundstage the size of a skull is really tiny, and the immersion with speakers is priceless. No, because one gets used to listening with headphones. And then it becomes a question of how well the system is enveloping me in the performance. Settled in, the experience is very different but ultimately equally rewarding.
I just listened to one of my favorite live albums from an Electronic Body Music band… The result doesn’t resemble a PA system as my prior Naim system was able to mimic. It also does not transport one into the live venue. (I deem that feat impossible today.) It does something different and equally enticing - it transports most of the energy of the live event as captured in the interaction between musicians and audience. It also opens up the music in a way not possible in the live venue. One can experience the inner context of the music with intent.
The music gains in immediacy; it is right there without any beginning. It is like the guitar player plugging his cable not into the Marshall amp but into my belly button. That way of reproducing music might not be everybody’s cup of tea. If one prefers an observer perspective, which is equally valid, this is the wrong upgrade. Immersiveness went up quite a bit too. It became easier to settle into the music and let the usual agitation of everyday consciousness subside. The music gained more grip as well. Plus, it became a lot easier to imagine how the guitar player moves his guitar, his fingers, and body in rhythm and chord progression. One downside - the system became less forgiving with recording quality than before. In the end that upgrade - with all other building blocks already fallen into place - elevated the system to another level.
As a technical note - I am using the 75 Ohm BNC terminated cables from the Tron series for clock duty. And as a caveat - I exchanged clock and AES/EBU cables at the same time so there’s no way to separate out the effect of swapping just the clock cables. But you will have gathered from my enthusiasm that the clock cables could be worth your consideration for your own system.
Further to Marco’s post I will just add that Black Cat Cables are designed and made by Chris Sommovigo, one of the most experienced cable designers in the audio world that there is. Black Cat is the less expensive line that he builds ( the premium range being from sister company Stereolab LLC).
When I say Chris builds the cables I mean it. He winds his own wire rather than just ordering a few reels from Taiwan with his brand name printed on the sheath.
Thank you for the detailed and thoughtful reply. At the risk of taking a slight detour in this thread I would like to say in my case you are preaching to the already converted I started with headphones back in 2001 when the first iPod was released and joined HeadFi in the early days. Back then the only real headphones were primarily Grado and Sennheiser and most headphone amplifiers were DIY in nature. I stayed on HeadFi until 2005 when I left due to my Naim/Linn LP12 system occupying most of my time. Imagine my surprise in 2017 when I decided to return to the headphone world only to discover an absolute explosion in the number of new manufacturers, new headphones, and new amplifiers.
I completely understand your passion and love of headphones and I admire you for taking things to the ultimate level by using a Vivaldi stack as your source component in a headphone only system. Since 2017 I have returned to my love of headphones in an (over the top) way and I now run Focal Utopia, Sony Signature Z1R (with the Signature WM1Z Walkman), and my original Grado RS1 headphones - all fronted by HeadAmp GSX MK2 and GSX Mini amplifiers and a commissioned Donald North Stellaris Tube HA due to arrive in June of 2022 (11 month build cycle). I also got bit by the Stax bug and run the SR-404LE 30th anniversary, L300LE 80th anniversary, 009S, and finally the new SR-X9000. These are fronted by the Icelandic Mjolnir Audio CARBON amplifier and last spring I commissioned a build of the infamous Stax T2 tube amplifier which hopefully will arrive within the next two months (an 8 month build cycle). In other words I fully understand and share your passion for headphones!
I actually came to the dCS brand because of headphones. At the beginning of 2020 I purchased a new Bartok with the intention of using it in a headphone only system located in a different part of the house from my dedicated 2 channel room. To my surprise the Bartok’s DAC performance went right up against the Linn Klimax DS which had been fronting my Naim 500 system since 2011. This started the wheels spinning and I decided to get a Rossini+Clock which easily replaced the Linn in my Naim system. The Klimax DS has now moved to supporting duties for the dedicated headphone systems - although I have to admit to a bit of envy knowing you are running a Vivaldi stack for your headphone systems.
I have heard good things in the past about Black Cat - and I now see that Pete @PAR has also chimed in with some feedback - and am starting to think about improving on the Apogee Wyde Eye cables currently used with my Rossini (purchased on the stellar recommendations from this forum).
I do not know if I want to immediately reach for TRON level (even though I am used to expensive cables as I run Chord MUSIC interconnects between my Rossini and LP12 and 552) and have instead been looking at the BlackCat Digit 75 cables. I now see these have been replaced with a (new?) cable called the Mini TRON which is claimed to get even closer to the TRON while being more reasonably priced.
Sorry for the derailment of this thread however it is nice to speak with a fellow headphone enthusiast.
Best
Gregg
PS - why not throw some “fire” into this thread and inquire how many here are using high end clock cables? There has been some comment as to “how” a clock cable can make a difference so I would be interested in hearing some additional opinions. Perhaps this query is for another thread (or one which I believe may already exist)
Well to avoid the creation of another thread which would, no doubt, replicate many of the points and recommendations made previously, try this lengthy one ( starts with cheaper cables but as you read further more expensive ones are mentioned):
As the saying goes one should never ask a barber whether one needs a haircut. That said, maybe Chris Sommovigo can give some context around the sound quality and feedback from clients for the different levels of products. He was a pleasure to deal with and highly professional.
It doesn’t make me frugal after the fact but my whole speaker system consists of one Sonos Five…
You have a beautiful collection and some very interesting amps coming in! Actually, one of your headamp recommendations is now in my system. Waiting for the AIC-10 Balanced in black from Riviera Labs to arrive for testing in late January. I heard it before during a headphone show in Germany and was not convinced. But who knows during shows - was it warmed up, run in, etc…
I would like to thank you abundantly for the headamp recommendation you gave a couple of months ago in another thread. That caused me to buy one and it is the sole amp now. Very lovely to listen with!
Happy to hear.
Did you get the GSX MINI or MK2?
I have both however I think the MK2 will be going up for sale. I need to make room for my inbound Donald North Stellaris Tube HA which should be here in June.
It’s the GSX MK2. It easily drives the Dan Clark Stealth. And it was already a very nice upgrade when I was still using the Bartók with internal headphone amp and Focal Utopia. The internal amp is already very good, but the GSX MK2 surpasses it by quite a margin.
I am curious to hear how the Donald North Stellaris Tube amp will perform… I used to run a Woo Audio WA33 Elite Edition with the Naim ND 555 which was good and then decided to stick to solid state amps. Which is a bit difficult at the top end for headphone amps. Less choice than tube amps.
I use Vivaldi Dac, Vivaldi Clock and NB. I honestly think that using very expensive cables to get good sound means the machines are not right. And I don’t believe it. If, on the other hand, one goes in search of “my sound”, everyone has their own tastes.
I can assure you cables do make a difference here. Try the standard added clock cables and try a well known specialized brand. I don’t want to recommend any brand in particular as it seems Worldwide there are several well known brands. In each region different, better known brands.
Also no debate for better or worse but for sure a difference. Yes, you are right, each owner to their particular taste of course.
(Please accept my apologies, and my error in sharing my prior positive experiences and comments with others in the community.
I now realize, there is no need to bother, I guess it is true…that there is no need for any audio upgrades and we should be happy with the basic cables and off the shelf ethernet accessories.
This will be my last transmission.)
(this is a reply to a post that was removed by the author)
I am not sure I grasp the connection between the OP question and an “upgrade” to a switch.
Anyway, I strongly believe there are better ways of insulating a DAC Ethernet port from noise, like for instance some inexpensive medical passive optical insulators that can be found easily on the Web.
Apart from noise, it has already been made clear that nothing else (bar a damaged switch, cable or port, but it’s easily detected) can change the quality of the bitstream reaching the DAC. Bitstream, not music, not digital audio signal, bistream, duly organized and formatted in dataframes, and taken care of by the excellent Ethernet protocol, with reordering and resending included for free.
So no place for jitter. Nothing, zilch, nihil, nix, nada. That happens after, not before, the RJ45 port.
While answering, I am still assuming (exactly like the other time) that you are a private user and are totally unconnected with the commercial brand you are writing about.
No apologies needed: sharing prior experiences is what a Forum is about.
Of course, other members are also welcome to share their opinions and experiences, and some of the members of this forum have a pretty good knowledge of the subjects they write about here.
Also, some members have invested in cables more than I have paid for my whole system. Not to mention other upgrades. So the final remark on basic cables and off the shelf accessories, on the usual tune of “cheap is cheap”, is based on nothing.
But if you want to convince me that upgrading an ethernet switch will reduce jitter, improve a bit-perfect, asynchronous datastream, or do some hocus - pocus to something that is yet to become a music signal, sorry no. That’s not how it works.
I am sorry to see you did remove your reply and advise to me.
As you could see I am also using a Melco S100 as an upgrade for the previous Silent Angel Bonn N8 including the separate PSU. If a switch don’t make a difference why to upgrade it and spend quite some money? We might be crazy but if we can hear the difference and we don’t harm others
Go for those tweaks……
For the S100 I am using the SBooster PSU. Nice upgrade but wasn’t aware Pink Faun has modifications available for the S100. Great tip👍
I am living in The NL’s so it should be easy to contact Pink Faun.
I am thinking to replace the fuses of the Rossini Player/DAC and Clock by Synergistic Research Orange as a friend has very good results.
Of course others will have their opinion but we should not be afraid of negative feedback.
I started with headphones back in 2001 when the first iPod was released and joined HeadFi in the early days. Back then the only real headphones were primarily Grado and Sennheiser and most headphone amplifiers were DIY in nature. I stayed on HeadFi until 2005 when I left due to my Naim/Linn LP12 system occupying most of my time. Imagine my surprise in 2017 when I decided to return to the headphone world only to discover an absolute explosion in the number of new manufacturers, new headphones, and new amplifiers.
That said, maybe Chris Sommovigo can give some context around the sound quality and feedback from clients for the different levels of products. He was a pleasure to deal with and highly professional.
