This morning I have again read the Mosaic Instruction Manual. I found it to be most helpful and this time around, have learnt a few new tricks.
One of the reasons for reading the Manual again, was to explore the ‘Extended Metadata’ section. However, unless I missed it, it refers to the streaming services of Qobuz (which I have) and Tidal. Not UPnP.
I am trying to access the ‘Extended Metadata’ (Artist, Album and Track information), from my UPnP Server, which in this case is MinimServer, the one recommended by dCS.
In Qobuz there is an info icon on the Artist artwork and also three dots to the right of it.
If you click on either of these it will display Artist information. The same goes for Album and Track information.
The UPnP (MinimServer) does not display the info icon on the Artist, and clicking on the three dots only shows various Play options, not Artist info. Please see attached screenshots.
MinimServer came pre-installed on my Melco N5, Digital Music Library. (I have upgraded to the full version).
Is there something in Minim that I haven’t ‘Enabled’ in order for it to show Extended Metadata, or has Minim actually got nothing to do with it?
David, Mosaic is a Control Point, which means it’s merely a front-end to whatever information is made available by the UPnP Server (or the Streaming services). Mosaic can’t show you anything outside of what is available from the Servers.
In the case of MinimServer, what metadata is possible is documented on MinimServer’s site, Start here;
Thanks @Anupc for your help.
Gonna have to hold my hands up high. I haven’t got a bloody clue about Minim. Thank goodness it was pre installed on the N5.
I tried to configure Minim on my old Qnap NAS about 15 years ago, when I first started Streaming. It aged me by 10 years and made my hair fall out!
@Anupc Even after proper tagging (or adding external doc files) in Minim Server, what is not possible in Mosaic is the ability to cross-reference through the drop-down menu that pops up when you click the triple dot against an album or tracks.
However, if I go to Quboz in Mosaic, at least it allows me to go to Artist from Album or vice versa.
This is the UI specific enhancement that dCS should do.
I am not sure exactly what you want to do. You can move from Album to Artist. Open MinimServer in Mosaic and it will give a list of options in order of Albums, Items ( tracks), Artist, Date, Genre etc. I cannot see what your issue is. You just go to that view and choose the category that you want.
As I may not understand your issue perhaps you could expand a little on it for my clarification . Screenshots may help.
I want navigation like the one in the attached image. Also, see the link in the Artist Name at the top left below the album name. All of this is possible for Quboz in Mosaic.
This navigation is much better than the navigation you have mentioned.
I am afraid that I still do not understand what you want to do. So I am not going to be of much use.
Qobuz via Mosaic uses the Qobuz API which defines what it can offer. However for UPnP, Mosaic is an “open” format which displays what the server software offers. As ( I think) you are using the recommended MinimServer, and if you have a fully licensed version ( not the free one), you can amend MinimServer and these amendments will show on Mosaic. I suggest that you use the MinimServer forum , outline exactly what you want to do and ask their advice. You will probably need the correct computer wording to carry it out if it is passible. I have made a couple of adjustments and MinimServer were very helpful in explaining exactly what to do.
You can also request dCS for features in Mosaic. There is a tag field for Feature Requests in the Products category which you should use as such requests made otherwise may not reach the party responsible. Note that they get many requests which are then in competition with each other for resources and selection will often depend on sufficient demand.
@PAR, what I want to do is navigate to the artist’s details by clicking the “Go to artist” link in the drop-down menu in the attached image.
This link does not appear for an album when I navigate using UPNP/minimserver using Mosaic.
IMHO, this has nothing to do with tagging/configuartion at the Minim Server level. This is a UI level feature which dCS needs to implement for UPNP servers. As you suggested, I’ll add this as a feature request for Mosaic.
I’m attaching an image showing how a similar album appears in a Minim UPNP view for in Mosaic.
Sourav, even if dCS chnanges the layout of Mosaic for UPnP it will still only display the metadata held by the server software. What you want - artists or album details ( I guess history, discography, personnel etc.) - is not usual metadata though some fields like publisher or lyricist are available in the ID3 standard though may not be in MinimServer . Mosaic has to access this data from somewhere. Where? Maybe in the future AI could do something?
Qobuz has discographers who research and add this data ( and lots of additional things) which you cannot read in in Mosaic as the API prevents this AFAIK). Note that the Qobuz data is part of the Qobuz service and cannot be transplanted to IPnP. You can, however, read it using the Qobuz desktop player on your PC/Mac while you carry on playing via Mosaic or Qobuz connect.
dCS have always made the point that Mosaic is intended to be a basic control point that gives most users more or less all they need. It has never been intended to be all singing and dancing.
For users wanting a more complex control point with attributes like extra artist and album information, dCS have ensured that its DACS are Roon certified end points. Roon has staff adding this type of data to its service. I suggest that your wants may be met by buying a Roon subscription.
I do have a Roon lifetime license (got it back in 2017) and also Roon Nucleus. But I find the sound is better when played using UPNP. Hence, I’m trying to see if Mosaic’s UI can provide more convenient navigational capabilities, specifically with dCS-supported UPnP (Minim) server.
I agree that, at the Minim Server level, the functionality should be supported. And I’m looking for those functionalities that are supported by Minim. For example, the ability to go to an album from a Track (from the drop-down list on the right of the track when one clicks the 3 dots). As in Minim, server indexes between Albums and Tracks can be created; this should be doable at the UI level.
I’m not asking dCS to provide Roon-like functionality (I get that it’s not a fair ask). I’m just asking for some basic UI navigation features for convenience, which should be pretty easy to implement.
I no longer use Bubbleupnp as there is no ios version but it operates the same way as mosaic taking metadata from minimserver. However it does display extensive metadata that is tagged in the file such as genre, composer, date and even lyrics where available. There is no reason why mosaic should not be able to display similar information if so desired.
However although the data are shown it is by collection e.g "show me all the Jazz albums I have ", then by artist or album title etc. It means that all the data is ( or should be) there already. . So it may only need a minor change to the playing screen but we then get the question of how many fields can be displayed and be legible on an i-phone or Galaxy phone?
There are also strict metadata questions. For genre do you find, say, Handel, Messiah for genre under classical, classic , classique ( if downloaded from Qobuz), Oratorio, Choral or Baroque ? Date can vary by territory and should it be original release or that of the remastering? I am sure there are loads more.
Anyway the data has to be entered first by you for ripped albums or be supplied by the download vendor.
So it seems very achievable technically though as with all things where updates are requested from dCS it depends upon the demand level as seen by them.
I am unsure exactly what you would want. You can already move from artist to album in one click if you use the correct Mosaic view.
Assume that I am in a given artist view,in this example Beatles. I can then click once and choose between the 31 albums from them that I have. Of course I then need a second click to pick which of the 31 I want to play but I cannot think how you can avoid this unless Mosaic could choose at random.
I suspect that I may not properly understand your want so perhaps you could explain in more detail.
You’re right, if I’m looking for an artist, after clicking on the graphic I go to the albums if I have set the appropriate view in MinimServer. However, when I have it described that, for example, when recording a specific song, apart from the main artist, e.g. Steve Swallow and e.g. Mike Rodriguez\Chris Cheek\Steve Cardenas\Gil Goldstein\Adam Nussbaum, I would like to go to albums where e.g. Steve Cardenas appears with one click and not do it by searching for the artist Steve Cardenas. Is it more understandable now?
[quote=“robertt, post:17, topic:7901”]
I would like to go to albums where e.g. Steve Cardenas appears
[/quote].
If I understand you want then that is not possible. I say “if” NB , that;s a smiley but I don’t know what you get from VoiceOver.
What you seem want is not in the standard form of metadata . You are seeking personnel or contributor information .Metadata usually only records the main artist. So e.g. Kind of Blue shows as only by Miles Davis and not by Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Cannonball Adderley, Bill Evans, Paul Chambers, Jimmy Cobb and Wynton Kelly - even though it really is.
The thing that you want is not simply a Mosaic display issue. The data does not necessarily exist in current metadata formats or at least all I have come across.
Qobuz can show this type of information but only for a few albums. however the information currently ( click on the “i” symbol in the cover art") seems normally copyright information ( label, distributor) and is not able to be searched in any case.
I understand that the music file must contain this information, meaning it must be properly tagged and all this information added. I did this for my jazz albums. If I select a John Coltrane album, MinimSerwer shows me all the musicians who recorded that recording. This took a long time, and I still have a few albums left to add. I try to provide the most complete tags possible for each added album. I use MP3Tag and Discogs. Increasingly, tags in sold files are becoming more complete. Qobuz, however, is quite sparse, and aside from the main artist, there’s little description.
NB , that;s a smiley but I don’t know what you get from VoiceOver.