Apologies for the thread resurrection!
Holy thread resurrection Batman!
Totally not a problem Nigel - you had something to add to the discussion and these discussions are always findable on searching (as is common with things onâtinterweb) so IMO your addition to the topic is totally justifiedâŚ
Phil
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My ears/brain are the final arbiter. Using solely Ethernet from source to dCS Upsampler for years. My experience with stock switches and cabling and then testing various alternatives has revealed that ânoiseâ does somehow creep its way into the system. And Iâm thinking the sources of noise attack like a tenacious virus into all points in the chain, from the power company through the very atmosphere.
For the network in particular, my current switch really did make a sonic difference: https://uptoneaudio.com/products/etherregen (the designer does attempt to explain the whys and wherefores here: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0660/6121/files/UpTone-J.Swenson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386 )
I wonât make any claim on the technical side but only that it has the effect of letting the music emerge from a âdirtyâ sonic haze once deployed.
Also, after many years of testing and using various digital and analog interconnects of various designs and technologies, Iâve found the noes designed by Shunyata Research to be the most effective. Not only at dealing with ânoiseâ but in what I can only describe as ensuring the proper flow of electric signals, or whatever. The net effect: a lower noise floor and musical flow. Again itâs all in my head and heart.
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I thought I would add my experiences here, without wanting to justify my choices or get into a debate about why the changes could /should have made any difference.
I use a Rossini + Clock supplied by an Innous Zenith MK3 server, which in itself is served directly from my Virgin media hub which is coupled to the internet by fibre optic cable into my house. I also run Cat 6 floating screen(s) ethernet cable (Design Cable co.) between the Zenith and My Rossini.
With this rather direct arrangement I didnât really expect to make much of an improvement - but I have now learnât that the ethernet input performance is heavily affected by insidious noise riding on the cable - just like USB.
First I added a Chord Ground USB array to the server and to my surprise the Ethernet input on the Rossini sounded better. Next I installed an ADOT fibre optic kit (dual SPF) with linear PSU (with splitter cable) between my Virgin hub and the Zenith - this resulted in a very substantial drop in the noise floor when streaming from Qobuz. Now, the Qobuz streamed performance was much closer to that provided from the solid state memory from the Zenith. Qobuz was starting to be engaging. PS: The best performance possible is to load a file into the Rossini buffer from the server and then disconnect the ethernet input - of course this is not practical for extended listening but does provide a baseline to make judgments about the effects of the noise riding in/on Ethernet cables.
I was intrigued - could this audio improvement also apply on my set-top box which outputs to my Rossini (Coax) and TV (HDMI)? [The set top box uses a separate Ethernet link back to the Virgin media hub]. The answer was a resounding Yes!
I was initially concerned about the intentionally âlow bitâ rate for the ADOT switch but this was not a limitation at all when streaming HD files on bbc iplayer. I ran this combination for two weeks to check and when satisfied bought a second ADOT dual SPF kit for specifically for my TV. Once you have seen the visual improvement and heard the improved dynamics you cannot go back.
So now with four SPF switches I wondered if better power supply would improve them further - just as expected the noise floor of the ethernet input to Rossini dropped again with all the usual audio benefits when I added a Plixxir dual output PSU just feeding the Hifi side SPF switches. Another purchase!
My spare Linear plug top supply was then re-purposed for the second SPF switch on my set-top box pair - another audio visual improvement!
Next I learnt about a new single mode fibre cable upgrade - this yellow cable is thinner (lower optical losses?) than the standard orange cable and just as with the PSU upgrades appears to improve the sound. I swapped between my two sets of switches (one with Yellow and one with orange fibre cables and the differences were easy to discern. So now I use Single mode cables for my Hifi and TV.
Whilst this approach is not inexpensive (or pretty!) the benefits are profound and represent very good value for money in the context of a DCS based system. Ethernet it seems is not immune to noise while exotic Ethernet cables still wonât provide isolation from noise transmitted / passed from connected devices. Admittedly the SPFâs are not completely noise free as proven with the PSU upgrades I made, however from my perspective they represent a credible and highly effective approach to improving streamed music sound quality.
Cross-linking to fibreoptic thread Anyone tried ADOT fibre network connectivity?
in case you want to pick up the trail over there.
Basically two different approaches to tackling the same challenge of stopping RFI/EMI noise reaching the DAC. As youâve discovered, opticalâs theoretical advantage can be limited in practice due to noise generated by the media converters themselves (and I include their power supplies here). In neither case is there any digital magic, both fibre optic and ethernet switches are digital boxes deployed to analogue effect. No bits are harmed or enhanced in the process!
I have tested the adot fiber with the Melco S-100 switch but it didnât do much compared to my existing setup at the time.
I have however recently added a different fiber optic isolation and it made a HUGE difference.
It was literally a tipping point and what brought the whole system together.
A friend of mine experimented with the sonore optical modules and also got results heâs very happy with.
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I had problems with dCS Rossini and Ansuz switch (NAS wasnât detected, roon didnât work). Problem was that Ansuz had some blocking/filtering (IGMP issues?) that didnât work. So I decided to sell Ansuz (but it really sounds great) and got an Innuos. Now does one know if APEX changes something streaming/networking wise? Or has one of you folks an Ansuz running with Rossini and Roon? Thanks!
holy crap- thatâs nice Vlade! Do you use Innuos directy connected to dCS or do you use InnuosâAnsuzâdCS?
In both cases it works perfectly. I am currently using, from Ansuz to Statement (network port), and from Statement (streamer port) to dCS.
Ok Vlade, thatâs the point- you use the Statment LAN port to connect dCS directly. I used the Ansuz LAN port to connect dCS as well and that didnât work. Had a chat with the dCS distrubutor 10min ago and they confirmed that Ansuz switches are still âblockingâ âŚ
It works without problems. I just tried it. Statement and dCS directly in Ansuz. It doesnât âblockâ anything.
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Great - thanks Vlade! Please leave it for some hours if possible, it takes some time and then it blocks (at least that was what my dealer and I found out)- again THANKS!
Many thanks Vlade!!! Thatâs really great âŚand drives me nuts because itâs exactly my dream combination you have there!
I couldnât get Ansuz switch running with dCS even wit NAS systems from Qnap, Synology and MelcoâŚit blocks the detection of upnp and roon services means neither Mosaic nor roon could play something.
I really donât know what the problem is. Last year I used an Ansuz C2 switch, and it also worked perfectly well. You have to try something else.
After almost five hours the problem would appear, thatâs for sure.
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Ok, roon works with Ansuz the problem is the upnp service and Mosaic. This service is blocked by the Ansuz switchâs IGMP spoofing. Had a call with my dealer again, he confiremd his findings that matches mine. Ansuz uses a D-link switch engine in its devices.
Itâs been more than three hours since playing music in Mosaic, itâs still working without problems.
Vlade, thanks! I donât know how this is possible. Will phone my dealer on monday and will describe your setup⌠but this is a mystery to me since we both tested dCS Rossini, Bartok, Melco, Qnap, Synology and different cables on Ansuz switches without success.