Hello DCS users.
I have recently become a happy owner of DCS Vivaldi DAC, non-APEX version. I had DCS Bartok before.
I would like to ask if in your opinion it would be (sound-wise only) more satisfying to upgrade it to APEX or purchase Upsampler Plus? I have already asked one high-end gear online reviewer and he suggests upsampler. What do you think? Is the upsampler worth the extra expense vs APEX upgrade, considering subjective sound quality improvement?
I guess the real answer to this is what you use now to feed the vivaldi dac
I feed it via its USB input by means of SoTM SMS 200 ultra streamer and tX-USB ultra regenerator. I use ROON to usample either to DXD or DSD x 2. I am very happy with the sound but I understand it could be even better, hence my question.
I had the same question for myself some years ago. The choice wasn’t Apex or Upsampler but Clock or Upsampler, as I had already the Network Bridge.
I asked the question to a dCS employee during a hi-fi show and his answer was to go for the Upsampler. The rational behind his answer was the following: with the Upsampler, you make the most of the Vivaldi Dac capabilities.
What is the purpose of upgrading to Apex if you cannot make the most of your Dac capabilities ? That is the question you need to answer.
I bought the Upsampler, it was a great upgrade compared with the Network Bridge and until now I did not buy an external clock and I did not perform the Apex upgrade, I will do the next upgrade, there is always a next upgrade better than the previous one… 
Thanks ChrisK. Makes sense.
Not a Vivaldi owner but I did go from an SoTM 200 (regular version) to a Network Bridge, which was a big upgrade (into a Metrum dac at the time, which admittedly doesn’t have a great USB input). So I think you should go for a used Network Bridge and the Apex upgrade. Can still add the clock later, if you fancy another step.
I have not thought about a NB but this might be a good option too to elevate Vivaldi’s performance. Need to read more about the Bridge.
100% upsampler. As i think you might find just using mosaic rather than roon nice for sound quality.
Plus the 2 vivaldi boxes work so well together.
No more to say really.
Thanks Duncan. I know Mosaic from the times of having Bartok. Was it better than Roon sound-wise? Can’t tell for sure. What I am missing however is Mosaic’s ability to remotely change dac’s filters, inputs, output voltages, etc. I could do that with Bartok via Mosaic and miss it with Vivaldi. If I understand correctly having upsampler I could do it again, this time with Vivaldi.
On the other hand, let’s ‘think of a penny’ - upsampler is quite pricey unless a secondhand unit is available. I wonder if, given the sound improvement only, this expense is worth it. I could live without Mosaic (as I do now), enjoy APEX’s performance and save a lot of cash. Is upsampler worth the extra expense (over the upgrade)? Ideally, I should answer this question myself after audition of both products in my system but unfortunately, I cannot. Perhaps I shall pay a visit to a DCS dealer close to my place for a listen. I suppose non-APEX version of Vivaldi won’t be available there, might need to take mine with me for a comparison.
The upsampler is really the hub of the vivaldi stack and so it really ties it all together.
I certainly wouldn’t be without mine and i had just the vivaldi dac to start with.
I used my melco to stream and play files over usb.
For sure the apex is great and also inpoved on what was already great.
Just like the bartok, the vivaldi will do the same once you use mosaic. It will also give you many more options with the upsampler.
More filters, mapping and upsampling rates to choose from. Plus obviously streaming.
I don’t know if you are running it with or without a pre amp? As this could well be a factor that’s bigger with apex if running direct.
But i feel most vivaldi owners would agree that it’s dac first, then upsampler and finally clock is the best way to go.
Thanks, Duncan for your advice. Makes a lot of sense. I will certainly take your opinion into consideration.
Another point that comes to my mind and makes upsampler a better choice would be signal path simplification. Right now, I have a dedicated laptop, streamer, regenerator, alternative power supplies, 2 USB cables, 2 iFi USB ‘gizmos’, … With upsampler all I need is a LAN cable to the network switch and 2 AES/EBU cables, if I am correct. That looks to me simple and easy to set up and handle.
That’s the minimum cabling requirement, yes. But to run a Vivaldi DAC/Upsampler combo optimally sans Master Clock you should also consider a 75Ω BNC clock cable. That way you can slave the Upsampler to the clock in the DAC and avoid having to use the word clock embedded in the AES datastream from the Upsampler.
Thx Andrew. Yes, I am aware of that. Clock with cables would possibly be my next step. I take it into consideration.
I’m not sure if the point came across (apologies if it did) but you would need one clock cable to synchronize the Upsampler to the DAC’s clock (the preferred scheme) if not using a master clock. If using a master clock you would require four such cables (two for clock-to-DAC and two for clock-to-Upsampler).
Thank you, Andrew, for your explanation. Good to know both units’ clocks can be in synch even without a master clock.
I think we are going a bit in advance yet, let me get upsampler first 
Hi @poohatek , what @AndrewS is trying to tell you is significant if you choose to go the upsampler route, for the price of one additional cable, which may cost only 10-20 dollars you should slave the new upsampler to you dac on the initial setup. (You have time while you’re waiting arrival of the upsampler to acquire the cable). This simple connection will substantially increase the potential of your system to reproduce a life like music experience second only to purchasing a master clock costing about 20,000. Best. Barry
Hi @AndrewS, I wasn’t aware of this.
I think what you (and @barryr1) are explaining is that the Upsampler detects the clock input from the DAC, and then automatically overrides any timing information that may be coming through the AES connection? Does a setting on the Upsampler need to be changed to do this? Can you pls elaborate?
(From a potential Vivaldi upgrader) : )
Thx!
It’s all in the manuals and very easy to do.
Definitely worth running it this way.
No, that’s not what is happening.
The DAC has a word clock output, the Upsampler has word clock inputs. The DAC also knows the sampling rate of the audio (unlike the master clock) so can automatically send the right clock frequency, hence this connection only requires one cable.
The Upsampler has no word clock output, it can only send its clock embedded in the AES datastream which is inferior to using a dedicated clock line.
So:
Hope that clarifies?
I will just add to Andrew that as well as connecting the Vivaldi wordclock output to the Upsampler wordclock input using a 75ohm BNC/BNC cable, you set the Vivaldi synch to Master ( M).