The complete window(s). So that will restrain any spending I may have otherwise have had for more “interesting” projects. I also need to replace the boiler (a gnashing of teeth noise at this point).
Triple glass windows are sounding and measurably better …
There are some things that I will never get out of my head from twenty years in London. One of them is boiler problems. I understand the teeth-gnashing! Good luck, Pete.
Thanks, Yes indeed. The sound suppression characteristics are important though as my place is made out of “ticky tacky” ( to quote the late and great Pete Seeger) I wonder if it would be worthwhile spending the extra? I will look into it come the early Spring.
Ok Greg. A lot of time and effort. Now that i am kind of up to date do you evaluate the perf 10 to the novus somewhere. How much do you think is to be-gained novus over srs. It is obviously more accurate. I am not a terrifically long distance from you in a rural mountainous area so may expect similar results. I can find references on the net to the mfg pages but the devices dont seem so common. Are these carried by wholesalers or retailers. Likely not stereo dealers. How do the prices compare. You have my attention. Thx. B
I read how Greg raved about the perf10 and then got the novus 1 with improved accuracy but i cant find any reference indicating what kind of improvement is expectedbor yielded. I am mentally committed at least to the perf10 but dont want to go down that road if the best new atomic clock is already out of the bag and i have just missed it. Has anyone tried the perf10 and think they have found something substantially better. Even marginally better. I saw that Greg had to install antennas on his roof to get separate satellite signals for reference. I can understand easily that it yields substantially better accuracy on the clock. Does that translate to substantially better music rendition. I have plenty of room for the multiple antenna but am looking for a reality check. Not looking for a new hobby. Just great sound reproduction.
Anybody?
Currently using vivaldi clock, fiber between cat 5 and switch transparent reference cables throughout.
I purchased the perf10 and installed it in conjunction with my Vivaldi stack and noticed improved separation between instruments and vocals pretty quickly. I use Transparent reference cabling and expect that makes a difference as well.
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Thank you Mark!
My experience with the Perf10 has also been excellent.
Not as sizeable a jump as with:
No clock to Rossini Clock
or…
Rossini Clock to Vivaldi Clock
…but improvements that I think are worthwhile. And given how ugly the Perf10 is, they HAVE to be there for me to keep The Beast around. (Albeit lurking under the rack, out of sight…in its little dungeon.)
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Thank you @all2ofme Ben. My system is broad enough (3 stacks) and not the central focus of my room [partially obscured from most anyone in the room unless they are loading a lp (that means me) by a 700lb wilson speaker] so it’s bulging eyes aren’t an issue and its aesthetics aren’t that bad…just not sleek. As I indicated I’m already in the vivaldi clock and just looking for that spooky quality that @palerider talked about in one of his evaluations. I’ve tried searching the forum and can’t seem to find why Greg upgraded to a more accurate clock (Novus 1) or if he heard any tangible difference once he did. If I had an inkling that placing 1,2 or 10 GPS antenna on the roof would substantially improve the work that is proposed to be done by the pref10 (using the SRS Novus 1 or another such device), I would pursue that route as I have the acreage up there and fairly easy attic access, no hoa and clear view to the sky in every direction. Lacking that input, I’m inclined to try the Perf10. I truely appreciate your chiming in. Best b
I hope neither @barryr1 nor @PaleRider mind me replying again here. Especially partially on Greg’s behalf…
Anyway. One of the things that I love about Greg (there are eleven) is his seeming disinclination to do audio things ONLY for shits and giggles. (I’m sure he’s rather different in other parts of life 
)
Moving from the Perf10 to the Novus 1 is unlikely to have been entirely for fun in other words. As with the Perf10 for me (blech), I’d guess the scenarios in his system ended up being:
a) Wow, that was worth the hassle. NICE.
b) Golly. That was not worth the hassle, but it’s up there now, and at least I know I’ve done all I can with clocking 
I think he’ll say something if it’s option b.
One final warning that the Perf10 is not only ugly, but will light up your room. The startup routine (by no means its only heinous party trick) genuinely does remind me of KITT in Knight Rider. Bit of a mood killer.
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@all2ofme I’m thrilled that you have responded. I am consumed with getting the best that I can) within reason) in everything that I do. Improved sound is on my mind all the time. I come up with some pretty obtuse ideas which I experiment with and some have paid off nicely. It looks like others have already done much of the legwork on this subject which I know relatively little about and I’m not one to experiment when it is clear that one solution is substantially better than another. I worked in a large corporate technical environment (Fortune 10) for over 10 years where engineers protected their findings for job security so I understand some of the reasons that people don’t share their specific findings. I was moved from a design engineer spot early on to an overseeing position because of my ability to see things outside of the box… in fact almost have difficulty working within the box. It’s possible that Greg is busy as I understand that you don’t get the dough that is required to be in this hobby by sitting around unless you happen to be a part of the golden spoon club. Golden spoon guys don’t typically participate in this stuff so I ruled that out. I also recognize that I am a nube to this club so possibly I ask too many questions for the meaningful return of input. My career has led me to a point where I try to eliminate the fools gold upfront based upon viable reviews and data and look to ultimately only make decisions on what sounds best to me from that select pool. Then the only decisions relate to effort, installation and cost. I can make those decisions pretty easily. . I don’t know if circumstances changed for Greg or what but it’s none of my business. I appreciate that he contributed what he did and was just hoping to cull a little more info from the group before I stepped up on a device. I don’t seem to be able to find it elsewhere. I recognize that some people have to always try the next new thing but Greg seemed like he was on a mission to try everything. To me that’s pretty diligent and commendable. It appeared to me that he ran out of steam doing the evaluation and was glad to be done, listening to great outcome and moved on.
Thanks again for the warning on the lights. I think that part of what I read is loud and clear. 
Hopefully I won’t take a battering for writing what I think as I’m really happy with the amount of advice that I’ve received from the group especially from PAR, Anup and Greg. This forum is the most detailed, non bs audio forum that I have seen, and I’ve seen a few. Thank you again for your input. b
Ben, thanks for chiming in above. Right on all counts I suppose. FWIW, I am at the moment on a cross country solo road trip visiting family and friends. By the time I get done, I will have driven almost 10,000 miles. Gonna find out which parts of North America are EV-ready and maybe which are not. This is right on the heels of returning from a trip to Italy, so I’ve been behind and haven’t caught up yet. My regrets.
Barry, in this forum, I don’t think there is anything such as “too many questions.” Keep asking them. There are people here with much better technical chops than me, but I’ll do my best to give my honest answers. I’m not much for fool’s gold and as a few will gladly volunteer, I am skeptical of claims that can’t be or aren’t grounded in some explicable engineering principle. I’m no golden spoon, but I will fork over my hard-earned money for something that convinces me, but I’ll also gladly save a buck or a thousand if something cheaper works for me. Anyway . . …
Wait, there’s a difference? 
But seriously, I don’t know what to tell you. I think some of the rabbit holes we fall into and follow are based on something we can see and hear side by side (speakers or components at a dealer, or even files vs. discs vs. vinyl), and might even be amenable to broad consensus. Others may be less obvious, less easily compared. Here, we know there are a variety of perceptions regarding the relative improvements of clocking. dCS have shared with us a lot of the technical design of their clocks, their basic working architecture, and how they respond to the addition of a reference clock that meets certain criteria.
I bought the Cybershaft primarily because everyone, especially over at that notorious opium den WBF (that’s just a joke), raved about it, the Cybershaft designer was very responsive and knowledgeable, the SRS did not have as much enthusiasm in the audiophile community, for some reason the Cybershaft seemed better made than the Mutec line, and because my Vivaldi Clock had a socket for it. It’s a lovely piece of equipment, its maker is a professional, and I am glad I did. I thought it improved the sound of my system. It was after that that James posted here the technical explanation of how the dCS clocks work and respond to reference clocking that I realized that something different from the Cybershaft might be even better. I came across an enthusiastic review of the SRS PERF10 (one which I also thought missed the mark on several key and comparison points), so I decided to give it a try. There were other atomic clocks to consider, including some by Antelope that are widely used in recording. There is also a super expensive UK marque whose name I have forgotten. But I decided to start with SRS. I never had the Cybershaft and the SRS in my system at the same time. So, I made no direct comparisons. But my wife and I both thought the system sounded better with the SRS. It certainly should have, if it was well designed and made, as it ticked the boxes that James articulated, and if it was something my system was capable of resolving.
I don’t recall exactly what caused me to take the GNSS turn in the rabbit warren—it might have been a review of the CH Precision clock—but I did. And once I did, it exposed me to an entirely new technology realm. As you said, a whole new hobby. 
Exploring GNSS-disciplined clocks, as the next best thing to a cesium clock, led me to Novus. And I am glad it did. Working with Bill and Sandy there, and being an unwitting part of their development of a new platform, one with audiophile benefits, was a delight.
Is the Kronos 1 better than the SRS? Objectively, based on its measurements, yes. Does it matter? 
Never compared the two side by side. My system sounds excellent, better than ever I believe, and that’s all I care about. And while neither the Kronos nor the PERF10 will win any beauty contest, especially in a dCS salon, the Kronos is the more attractive and less obtrusive of the two.
Could be. I don’t need to always have the next new/great thing. But once I get a burr under the saddle, I will ride it out. I firmly believe that technology will keep improving digital SQ. But I also believe it can plateau at times, and that the SOTA will remain very high quality for quite a while. In this case, I didn’t see much else out there that could offer a technically superior approach to improving the reference clocking within a budget that did not materially increase my risk of divorce.
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Thanks Greg. I suspected that LIFE was getting in your way of answering my desperate questions. It’s funny as adults (now there’s a good one), we think that our personal quests for our own self indulged hobbies are so important to everyone. I actually know that few people care about hifi systems so it’s refreshing to get on here and raise a hairbrained idea and have someone give me feedback good or bad. Anup with his crisp technical knowledge and you with your always gracious patience and certainly Pete as well as others who have helped me out as I have learned this digital terrain.
I won’t further act like the spanish inquisition but want to tie back my take away on the subject so that if I or someone else wants to see where we got to on this subject it may be more evident.
I have read in a number of places including the exalted WBF that Cybershaft is manna from the gods for the digital world but I see that it’s been debunked by James and that it could not possibly make the Vivaldi system improved to the extent that there is a Vivaldi clock installed as it has inferior capabilities doing the same role as the Vivaldi clock. At least not from a statistical point of evaluation. Being a technically minded/educated person I always want to think that the stats always tell the truth, I also am a conceptual thinker and by career a dreamer, separate for many years from the technical world, and recognize that any device could enhance something that we hear that isn’t measurable with todays technical tools. Leaves the door open at least a little.
Then comes the Perf10. I believe from your observations it made substantial differences to your listening enjoyment and is supported technically by James as being of the appropriate architecture to compliment and possibly aid in the accuracy of at least the Vivaldi stack which is where my head is. The words uttered by your non musician wife “Spooky” got my attention.
(My wife has played classical piano and has sung professionally as long as I have known her … lets just say she was in high school then and she stopped singing with the symphony in a large city a few years back. She has been taking an increasing interest in the stereo and my coaching to stop listening to the melody and go into analytic mode. Listen to the sounds and see if they sound real… convincing. I don’t think this is the way to enjoy music, but it is the way that I set up my system and discern initial differences. Once i turn off the technical listening is where the real surprises occur and the where did that sound come from surprises you in a good way. Her hearing and her manner of listening has changed and but she still mostly has comments like… it sounds great. Fortunately cost has not been a question that we have ever dealt with). I have a client/friend who has been a career concert violinist. He has been to my home a few times to hear my rig. His claim is the most real that he has heard except disney auditorium in la. I’m not certain I’m there, but I do chase ideas down rabbit holes to see what may be lurking.
Which brings my thinking to the Novus 1. My reading over and again your description and summary of your experience with the Novus. I don’t want to put words into your mouth but this is what I have extracted from your experiment. When you started your atomic clocking quest you found Cybershaft which gave you a lift. You then proceeded to Pref10 which was notably better in your system than Cybershaft but from a technical standpoint you wondered if it could still be better… I mean why not? Novus was installed and it sounded great. You can’t really put your finger on how or why but technically it’s better and it sounds great. I got loud and clear that you don’t spend dollars unnecessarily but will spend up to what you deem necessary to get where you’re going. I think that we are the same there. Thank you for indulging my folly. I have learned a lot just from your experience and have saved a lot of time. Please feel free to head butt me if I misstated but I am thinking to order a Pref10 in the next few days. I am tempted to try the Novus but i am not convinced that the additional efforts which will slow my trip to Nirvana warrant the wait (but I’m still listening! 
). Again thank you for your time and enjoy your trip. b
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You cannot go wrong with a PERF10. It’s a superb piece of gear.
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Hi Barry,
Just wanted to see if you ended up getting the Perf10?
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I did. I ordered it the next day. They estimated a 6 week backorder but after my second call it actually came in about 2 weeks
The verdict: on many recordings the difference may be negligible, possibly because the recordings arent rich enough in detail and dynamic range… but when it makes a discernible difference it isnt subtle. At least not to me. I have very broad listening tastes and the two selections that i will describe arent necessarily my prime stream but show impressive improvement.
The first it a bruckner mass in e minor motets. I have used this as a reference piece for a few years and know it fairly well. It always had terrific sense of space and depth as well as ambient space. I now distinctly hear the different vocal parts more spread from each other although the piece is more coherent and sounds more human.
The second is shirley horn But Beautiful, specifically” I just found about love”. This track places me in a club listening to shirley. The life in her piano strokes, the drum strokes are defined and distinct and the piece just springs to life. It doesnt sound like shes in my room but take into consideration the pa and mic. Really dynamic. Overall things sound more real
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Great to hear! There are definitely ways to get less of an improvement for the money than a Perf10 
Very happy with mine for the same reasons you describe.
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Thanks for taking the time to share your experience with me @barryr1, I really appreciate it.
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My pleasure