CPO dCS experience?

Hello friends, does anyone have experience with the dCS CPO program? My dealer speaks highly of it. I’m told they completely test these pre-owned systems and replace parts as needed, bring the model up to the latest spec as well as perform and any cosmetic replacements too at the Cambridge factory.

Honestly in the case of a compete Vivaldi APEX system it’s not a huge market down from list price (only about 10% less than what I could get a new one for)…BUT my dealer will give me full trade in value for my Rossini APEX player with Clock.

In the US, seems that prices have gone up…not sure I can swing this…but curious if anyone has gone through the dCS CPO program and if it was worth it to you.

thanks so much!

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Hi and welcome to the forum. I hope that you find it useful.

I have not used the CPO program ( with around 28 years experience as a dCS user). However what your dealer says is correct in principle. dCS will do this. However it would involve shipping to and from USA to UK. The cost of this will erode the discount over new that can be offered. Ironically, if 10% saving is all that is offered over new then this equates to the tariff that your President has placed on imports from the UK i.e. what you pay for used was the price of new previously, everything else being equal.

The way that CPO works from a consumer’s point of view is rather obscure. The dealer may tell you his process has taken place but where is the proof? Do dCS provide a certificate ? I am sure that he is telling the truth but how is this verified ?

how much is that? How do you know it is a full price? It sounds to me simply to be what he is prepared to give.

A complete Vivaldi system includes a silver disc transport unit. Is this included in your purchse? If so is the transport unit mk.1 or 2? Note that spares may be difficult to obtain.

Is the dealer offering you a full system or only part ? The full system consists of CD/SACD transport,streaming upsampler, DAC, wordclock. I am mentioning this as I have seen quite few intending upgraders from Rossini who wrongly think that Vivaldi ,like Rossini, contains all in one or two boxes for equivalent features.

One thing you can do to validate a purchase is to contact the factory with the unit(s) serial number(s) as they will be able to provide an idea of its past history.

[email protected]

Unless you are certain that it is affordable for you my advice is to leave it until you can do it without pangs of guilt.

Thank you for your welcome Pete, well said. Here is what I know….

There is no shipping from the US to the UK. I’m told that dCS has a ltd number of CPO pc’s and they are already at the factory. Not sure where they came from originally, I imagine dealers or ? dCS goes into length on there web-site explaining the CPO program. I think it’s a matter of trust with the customer & dCS, no cerficate (I wish). My dealer is offering me a full credit (what I paid for it a month ago) for my Rossini Player & Clock towards a full 4 pc CPO Vivaldi Apex system. I verified that the CPO Vivaldi DAC was originally an APEX version and not a std that was converted. It will include the Gen 2 transport. I’m told the full Vivaldi system will be completely up to date with the latest hardware/software.

Great idea to find out the past history of this specific system…..

The CPO works out to be a 10% discount from what I can get a brand new set up for. No shipping charges, full credit for what I paid for my Rossini Apex Player and Rossini Clock towards “fully up to date” 4 pc CPO Vivaldi Apex system.

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Great @mehappy . As I said it is obscure how CPO works and there have been a couple of queries about it here recently. However your post is of more use :slightly_smiling_face:. I didn’t realise that dCS hold a stock of used items and they are not (direct) trade ins with your dealer.

So long as you are happy with spending the money it now all sounds good to me. You have the email address for dCS support now too ifyou need it.

Good luck with how it goes for you and I hope that you will keep us up to date. As a long time Vivaldi user I am confident you will like it.

Hi Pete (and others),

Sorry if you find the CPO program obscure, I lived in the belief that the description on the website was clear, but very happy to learn if there are ways we can improve it. I’ll try to explain it here, please let me know what of this wasn’t clear to you.

Firstly, both Certified Pre-Owned and Dealer Approved are global programs. That means they are available to all the partners we deal with: individual retailers in the US, where we run our own distribution, and distributors in the rest of the world. We believe the program makes a lot of sense for both prospective (access to current dCS products at lower cost) and current (residual value protection) end customers. However, different markets have adopted these programs at different speeds which I suppose is natural. Work to roll them out globally is ongoing.

The main difference between the two programs is the level of testing/repair that is performed and corresponding warranty that is offered. With CPO the products come back to the factory, are inspected here, anything other than very minor cosmetic defects are fixed and the unit has to pass our full test suite, exactly as if it were a new product. Based on this we can offer a 2-year factory-backed warranty. Dealer Approved products are inspected by the retailer. We back them with a 1-year factory warranty but they are obviously free to offer their own terms over-and-above that at their discretion.

So while Dealer Approved inventory always sits with the individual retailers, Certified Pre-Owned units always come back to the factory for testing and are held in a global pool here until ordered by a retailer or distributor. Some larger retailers order units for their own stock, but most order only when they have a customer order. When a CPO unit is ordered all we have to do is set the correct mains voltage, drop in the correct mains cable and ship it out.

So the cost of CPO products, which has to cover two-way shipping to/from the factory and the cost of any replacement parts or repair work needed, is naturally higher than Dealer Approved, or private sales via second hand sites. However the level of testing, warranty and hopefully ultimately customer confidence is much higher, customers have to decide which option is right for them, Our view is that our products represent a significant investment even second hand, and we want to do all we can to ensure that the second and subsequent customers’ experiences are as close to those of the first as possible.

Neither of these programs should be confused with the trade-in terms that a retailer might offer for a customer’s current unit. That’s between the retailer and the customer and is entirely at their discretion. However they have the certainty that dCS will always buy back for CPO any current unit they take in via a trade-in but don’t want to hold in their own inventory and sell as Dealer Approved. The exact value is based on the condition and completeness (packaging, accessories etc) of the unit.

We have not provided an actual paper certificate historically, simply because they can be so easily forged. Customers can always check the CPO status of any unit by contacting [email protected] with the serial number. The CPO Warranty is non-transferrable, so the only person to whom the proof would be of value is the first owner. Since they don’t pass through our hands we have no information regarding the status of Dealer Approved units.

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what are the problems with CPO? :

  1. you need to know that there is such a thing first to find details of it on your website. Consumers are simply trying to find a ( say) used Bartok Apex .

  2. Access is only via a dealer. I have only been using dCS for 27 years or so :slightly_smiling_face:but in that tine I have never heard a dealer mention the existence of CPO. Yes, I have been offered used equipment once or twice but these offers were made as the dealer’s own PX or ex-dem stock and without any reference to CPO.

  3. It is in the dealer’s interest to shift the sale to a new unit or ( OMG!) to a new unit from a competitor that he has in stock.

My suggestion is that although CPO itself may not need no change, the approach to publicising its existence needs to be revised with a better focus on the consumer. He or she will probably not start looking via Only the Music and even if he/she does it won’t answer their question;, is there a used Bartok Apex available?

I understand why dCS does not want to be involved in sales and needs to support dealers but I am not convinced that this is the best approach to encourage interest even if the scheme itself is excellent.

Great feedback, thanks Pete.

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Thanks for the clarification Andrew & Pete about the CPO dCS program. Seems like a fair deal for all, one that I’m comfortable with…Cheers!