True…this is a bone-headed policy that will only alienate their existing customer base, push a sizeable number of Bartok’s on to the used market and, as a result, stall the sales of new Bartok Apex. Bone-headed.
Although I don’t know the split, it’s less than $3,100 USD to dCS, as I’m all but certain that dCS pays their dealer a percentage of the upgrade amount.
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If my memory serves me right, the Bartok prices in the US were $11k, then $14k, then $!7.9k over the years it has been sold. If you add the 3 tired prices that have been discussed in this thread for the Apex upgrade to these prices, you end up with roughly the price for a new Bartok Apex, with some adjustments for inflation. If the objective of dCS was to keep customers happy that their outlay for their original cost plus the Apex upgrade price is approximately the same as a new Bartok Apex, no matter when they bought it at the price they paid, then it appears from the comments here that they are not going to reach their goal of keeping customers happy!!!
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Will be interesting to see where all this ends up in different markets.
Lots of different viewpoints! At least three of the big ones:
a) miffed as an early adopter
b) miffed as a recent purchaser
c) the cost is the cost
Do you reward A? Do you placate B? Do you take C as a leveller? All are tradeoffs that will cause audible harrumphs in the others.
Selling a 2.0 Bartok and getting a pre-Apex 2.0 Rossini is an option, of course. And you can Apex that later. The numbers might even work out favourably.
That seems entirely reasonable. Frankly, I hope that’s the case, I think we’d all agree having a dealer base is in our benefit.
I will definitely look at all of those options, including other DAC offerings in the marketplace such as MSB, T + A, CH Precision, Esoteric, Boulder, Wadax, etc. In my case, if I elect to go to a different route, I will sell my Bartok and Rossini clock, then add the approximate amount of upgrade cost to it and see what that will buy me, or of course trade- the DCS gear.
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Hearing great things about the Mola Mola Tambaqui….see youtube Darko review and comparison with Bartok, Herb Reichart Stereophile review favouring the Mola Mola over the Bartok….and others. Similarly unique DAC architecture with these two companies.
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You have a good point, looking back at the history of non-Apex Rossini, I’ve seen prices as low as $15K USD.
If you are interested in a used Tambaqui, PM me, I may know someone who is getting ready to sell one… It’s not me 
.
FWIW I compared the T+A SD 3100 HV to my Vivaldi Clock and Bartók (now sold) and preferred the Bartok by some margin.
“The Bartok and Clock are a bit more believable, a bit less Technicolor” was roughly how I described things to the very kind chap who lent me the T+A to try.
Other notes that might help (all my ears and my system of course):
- I preferred the T+A to the Bartok sans Vivaldi Clock.
- I thought the dCS did a much better job of PCM than the T+A. DSD was closer.
- the Bartok’s headphone output was better than the T+A’s for the headphones I tried, which was just the HD800S and Empyrean at the time. (I must have wandered onto the slippery slope shortly afterwards
)
I’ve heard CH Precision, Wadax and Tidal in some very, very good systems, but not ones that served as enough of a control to comment on for comparisons.
Edited to add: all of these comparisons were with a Bartok running 1.0.
I think 9900 euros for an apex upgrade for a Vivaldi is a bargain, but it starts to make less sense as you go down the chain.
A Bartok in Europe has always been around 20k, at 10k the upgrade, the sauce starts to be more expensive than the meat.
And why not offer the 50% discount on the upgrade only in the US/Canada and not globally?
I think at 4500 euros a lot of people would upgrade, at 10k I don’t see people rushing to upgrade, it will only devalue the second hand market, essentially leaving Bartok owners unhappy, they can’t sell without taking a big hit and they can’t upgrade either.
I think this launch is a miss for existing dCS customers, first all the speculation about the Next Gen, then the lack of communication from dCS about the upgrade policy.
There should be an official statement about the update program, pricing and conditions instead of leaving it to dealers where it seems there’s a lot of differences depending on where you are.
The dealer I called couldn’t even give me some information.
It’s not normal that we have to spend hours on this forum to have some kind of sense of what’s going on.
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I agree on all of your points.
Amazing that dCS wouldn’t be 100% ready to disseminate all Bartok upgrade program details to all dealers worldwide coincident with the official Bartok APEX announcement on 2/7/23. That’s how it should have been managed, but was not in the case of my dealer. Simple stuff—put out the information at the very same time the announcement went live on the dCS website, and not before so that all dCS channel partners get it at the right time, but not in advance in order to prevent pre-announcement leaks.
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I understand your point, but a company is not a social service, the idea of justice does not exist.
If the Apex upgrade is the same hardware for every dac of the dCS line up, then there is a logic that the price is identical.
Better, it is very fair from dCS asking the same price for Apex Vivaldi upgrade. They know that some of those owners would pay the double for the Apex upgrade, may be even more.
But it is true that for a Bartok it is half of the value of this hardware…not pleasant but fair, in a way…
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Have heard the new ring DAC board for the Bartok will be the same as used in both the Rossini and Vivaldi so a similar price point for all three is somewhat justified but not a arbitrary tiered increase to recover cost increases not paid by early adopters.
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Perhaps fair, as you say, in a way.
However, dCS set the MSRP levels for new Bartok APEX units and associated upgrade program. The pricing strategy seems to not have been very fully considered from a customer satisfaction/retention perspective, (at least in terms of the upgrade) for the multiple reasons cited by folks on this Forum.
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I must admit that for customer retention we have seen better strategy 
I do hope that the sound quality after the upgrade is clearly heard without any doubt…
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I am not asking for a social service nor justice.
I am asking for a brand to communicate clearly on their upgrade terms and conditions and was hoping for some kind of logic behind some of the pricing. (the 3 tier pricing isn’t logical for me).
It’s like dCS are playing the engineers card and leave it to the dealers for the commercial part.
I am also expressing my opinion concerning the upgrade price vs the unit price.
Although the apex board is (maybe?) the same, it represents a bigger % on a bartok than on a vivaldi, therefore making the choice more questionable.
I’m just saying there should be an incentive in upgrading a bartok, at this type of price, I just don’t see it.
As for me, I had put my Bartok on sale before the announcement wanting to upgrade to rossini or vivaldi, but it now seems I have to move it probably 3/4k lower to sell it.
It doesn’t help also competing with dealers who purchase their units at about 40% off retail price, they can move theirs cheaper than us without losing money.
I understand we’re not in hifi to make money but a fair upgrade pricing would have been appreciated.
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Based on the reviews that I read regarding Vivaldi upgrades to Apex, if the same holds true with the Bartok to Apex, upgraders should be in for a real treat.
I am really not worried about the quality of the apex upgrade.
For sure it’s going to be good.
And for sure the hierarchy is going to be maintained between the units.
It’s actually going to be so good that it will depreciate non apex units.
Therefore it would have been nice to have a reasonable upgrade possibility for current owners.
I just think dCS are fantastic for engineering, a bit less stellar for commercial communications and decisions for this one.
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Good points, all.