Alright, I was wrong then !
A question for my upgrade strategy…My dCS setup is a Vivaldi Dac and Upsampler. So, what would be the best choice as a next step, buying a Vivaldi clock or doing the Apex upgrade…You cannot answer both, that would be too easy 
Chris, both! 
But seriously, you already know that the Clock and the Apex upgrade do two very different things. Apex makes the DAC sound better in many of the discrete ways I think audiophiles are accustomed to describing the performance of their equipment. The Clock’s benefits are, to my ears and brain, more holistic and organic. It’s the whipped cream and cherry on top of what is already a superb bit of dessert.
I think Apex is a marvelous reflection on dCS’s commitment to their customers to improve their hardware. Yes, it’s not cheap, but it’s a fair bit cheaper than the Clock. And who knows how long the upgrade will be sourced/available? That’s probably not a big worry, I admit. But here’s one thing: the upgrade (as opposed to a new Vivaldi Apex) isn’t available used, while the Clock occasionally is. If it were me, I’d get the upgrade now and start looking for my most economical path to the Clock. As long as there is a Vivaldi model—and it seems to me that Apex suggests an additional shelf life for Vivaldi—you’ll be able to get the Clock. And buying a Clock, new or used, will always be easier/quicker than arranging for and waiting for the Apex upgrade. Just on a convenience basis, I’d get the upgrade done when you will miss your DAC least. For me, that was when I was traveling. If one has a backup DAC, it’s no big deal either way.
Sonically, I cannot offer an objective comparison. I actually cannot offer even a subjective one, since I added the Clock very early to my system (2020 I believe), while Apex happened last year, and after the addition of my reference clock. I also never had the chance to make a comparison between the Apex and non-Apex units. All I have is memory to go on, and it seems to me that the system sounds better than ever. And it’s prompted me to consider selling my other reference system. If I was starting with dCS now, rather than three years ago, I would buy the Vivaldi Apex (because that’s the choice now, and I don’t think they offer it “non-Apex”). But if I could get a Vivaldi used at a price point that made the Apex upgrade economical, I would do that before I invested in the Clock. That’s the best calculus I can offer.
I see you were tempted to answer the easy way…But I was sure you would not resist answering the accurate way
You must be right, the logic would be the Apex upgrade first…But I am a bit lazy…packing the Dac, going to the shop etc…software upgrade are so much more confortable…I shall do it in spring I guess…before dCS raises the price to 18.000€ 
Based on what I hear here, I enquired of dCS in the UK about this Apex upgrade for Bartok and got back:
“There have been no new product announcements from dCS so, if I cannot assist you with your Mosaic issue, there is no further information I can provide”.
NB I have not had much luck with operating my Bartok with Mosaic, but will work with Roon.
Well, that wasn’t very helpful, was it?
Sean, I have read all of the way through your thread on this and see that I was involved during the early days.
You seem to have a unique problem with the incoming BT router installed in your garage and not your home where Bartok is situated.It appears thereon to the home you use wifi. At least Roon gives you access to Tidal but this really does not seem to me to be the answer that you need or are looking for.
Potential solutions seem to have been offered and there may have been some directly from dCS but naturally I could not see that side of things. So you seem to have ended up with a work around suggested after a visit from your dealer. As you have deduced Bartok really needs to be hard wired to the router as it is not a wireless device.
Can you not get BT to move your connection so that the router is in your home?
As you have written to dcS about a Bartok Apex upgrade they have , naturally, said that such a product has not been announced. Which it hasn’t although rumours abound. However in the context of Mosaic, Apex upgrades offer nothing in this area. Apex is a hardware change concerning (briefly) power supplies, DAC and analogue output stages. It has nothing to do with the streaming board. So there isno solution there for your issue.
After reviewing this thread it appears that only two posters have confirmed being contacted by their dealer with offers of an Apex upgrade for the Bartok and both of these posters are Canadian. (I am one of them)
So I am wondering if the Canadian dealership network is misinformed or just letting the cat out of the bag before an official announcement from dCS.
Dunno.
Perhaps @Johnkuch1 and I share the same dealer with this dealer just speaking out too early or simply misinformed. Nevertheless, confusing.
That’s an interesting thought. I see you are in Vancouver. My Bartok comes from a Vancouver dealer that fairly recently moved to North Vancouver. He has now given me a date and an invoice. That seems strange if it’s not true.
Well here it is…one dealer, mine as well, was the start of this. Time for dCS to respond.
I tend to think that if it wasn’t true, dCS would have been along already to say so. They can’t deny now, only to reveal it in a few weeks’ time…
SeanSullivan
PAR Pete Rogers;
I appreciate your helpful interest but my addition to this thread was about the possible Apex Upgrade only really. But seriously, thank you!
(However, I have replaced the BT Router, BT changed the Mastersocket, BT moved the Mastersocket, changed the DAC’s location, re-arranged the household telephone wiring to become “ethernet wiring”, changed the physical cables, changed the DAC’s physical support/cabinet, hard-wired the DAC, changed the iOS device several times. Apart from digging up the incoming external BT telephone cable from the ground, the only item not changed is the Bartok…the DAC will now work OK on Roon. In the meantime I switched to Linn LP12 vinyl which is sonically superior but still have the aluminium brick and sought to at least get some remaining value from it, hence the Apex interest. I also wondered if the Apex upgrade would close the gap with the Linn. The Roon/DAC combination is not perfect but I can well live with its interface)
i dont live in canada but have also been informed by a dcs dealer that apex is coming to both headphone and non headphone versions of the bartok.
What is the next big show where an official Bartok Apex announcement would likely be timed with? Or does dCS just roll their own announcement schedules and not tie them to any particular trade show?
So we have another data point and another country, seems like we may have an Bartok Apex. Now what is the deal with the two tiered pricing?
This dCS dealer in Stockholm is offering its ex-demo Bartók HDAC (non-Apex) for sale. Another clue?
think we may see a few of these hitting the market
If the Bartok APEX is true, and there is tiered pricing on the upgrade, one would have to invest up to $9k (USD) more into their Bartok. As the lowest end DAC in the dCS line, that does not resonate well. As a percentage of the cost of the Bartok, it’s a very high price of entry compared to the other models. In fact, it feels like it’s meant to discourage you from doing it (and perhaps encourage you to upgrade instead).
The cost to upgrade to APEX should be the cost to upgrade to APEX. Not based on some point in time. Then why not apply that approach to the Rossini and Vivaldi as well? It does not make sense and it leaves a bad taste of the brand. If you bought a Bartok, you bought a Bartok–it should be simple as that! Want to upgrade to APEX? – here’s the (one) price to do that.
In any case, all of this is hearsay right now. We’ll wait to see if any of this bears out.
As everyone knows dCS have not made any announcement about a Bartok Apex DAC ( HPA or solo) at his point. It remains as speculation and even if you believe the rumours there is nothing you can do to get one. dCS will not supply dealers nor undertake an upgrade until ( if) the official announcement is made should this happen. I am sure that some dealers might be happy to accept an order nevertheless to improve their cash-flow even if they can’t (yet?) supply the goods. Naughty.
The current price of Bartok HPA in the UK is £17,750 so if you take the Guildford Audio ad at face value you can work out a price differential should the ad be for the HPA version - it is ambiguous. However if and until the product is released you can do nothing except speculate.
I would counsel simply calming down and exercising some patience . It will become clear on a practical level what is or isn’t happening as the new year wears on.
Seems the cat is out of the bag though Pete - although apex is not specifically mentioned, Oxford Audio Consultants are showing the Bartok at £19,000 and the Bartok H/E at £21,500 which is the price I was told by a dealer last week and posted on here.
