Bartok Apex or D’Agostino

dagostini - vastly overated and over priced

Bruno, which amplifiers or integrated amps do you consider to be an ideal match with SabrinaX?

Likewise interested in hearing your take on others. D’agostino definitely seems to be a popular choice amongst dCS owners.

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I really like dans work but you wont pair it with average speakers and source and in an average room and setup and expect it to be transformative.

I think seeing a fair number of system pics on here marrying dCS with D’Agostino amps likely led to some higher than was reasonable expectations, I admit I was a little surprised not to be blown away right at the start of the demo. We spent the whole day at the dealer, morning session was Rossini Apex - Progression - Logans. Out for a nice seafood lunch. Then the afternoon was SME TT - Naim 222/300/250 or Progression - Logans and then back to the Rossini Apex - Naim - Logans. I took my own LPs and used the dealer setup to play familiar rips via Mosaic Minim UPnP and a bit of Qobuz.

Mrs GG preferred the Progression to the Naim, I felt the top end and imaging was better but did enjoy the Naim boogie factor, for want of a better description the Progression had a more refined and detailed presentation, more hifi, the Naim had more balls. After hearing the Naim 200 series it was sufficiently impressive that I intend waiting for the Naim 300 stuff to drop, the 350 Monos do appeal. I think around October we’ll have another dealer demo and throw in a couple other makes before getting a home demo of the top two contenders to head to head with my Luxman.

I did climb all the way up the Naim Classic range a couple years back, ending up at 500 level but regretted it, I never enjoyed it in the same way I did the 282/300/TeddyCap Plus which remains a favourite and a combo I would happily return to.

If I wasn’t so heavily invested in TTs/LPs I’d go for Rossini into Power Amp, ran Bartok direct into Bel Canto 600M for a while as an experiment with excellent results, but I need a Pre so put the Luxman integrated in and sold the 600M.

@GusGus
Thank you. Very enlightening however throwing a bit of a roadblock at what I am moving towards :laughing:

I am coming from 18 years with a Naim 552/500 system - the last 4 with both units recapped and DR’d. Although I am heavily invested in vinyl (Klimax level LP12 and 7k of records) the last number of years have been spent streaming. A Linn Klimax DS has been fronting the system since 2011 (/1,/2, Klimax and Organik) until a Rossini (and then APEX) kicked it out in 2020.

If you venture to @Dunc thread you will see that I (along with others) experimented with his cables and tested removing the 552 and going direct into the Naim 500 amplifier. I have been playing around with this combination since last week and it has been an eye opener. Enough to have me seriously contemplate abandoning Naim and moving on to a more simple system of Rossini direct into an amplifier.

The short list is to try and hear a D’Agostino Stereo Momentum S250MxV. Looking for others to try however on this side of the pond (here in the States) things are not as easy as they are with my friends in the UK. My dear friend @all2ofme was fortunate enough to make the rounds and I know his Dartzeel ended up winning the race although he rated the D’Agostino rather highly. Dunc ended up with a Vitus integrated while I have another dear Naim friend who abandoned his 500 system for the Vitus and then ultimately Tidal.

Me thinks this will not be easy :wink:

Dagostini stuff is full of stuff. In my mind it ruins the sound. Less gubbins is better for me. I do not know the characteristics of the Sabrina X. Matching is so key to all this. What you expect to match is not always the case. Unfortunately trial and error, guided by a genuine and knowledgable dealer is the only way

Have you tube rolled yet? Get a good pair of NOS 12AX7s to replace Nagra’s stock tubes (IIRC JJ or EH?), you’ll be amazed at how much further you can push the Nagra! :grin:

Youre getting a lot of advice here. I think your best bet is to listen to a few amps. Ive heard some of the most highly rated amps on the market and have lived with some super class a monos for a long time. An opinion on an amp is just that. Everyone hears something different. Different amp designs have different strengths and weaknesses. Although i dont own relentless i feel it is a great amp and has great qualities. It is designed along the lines of what i like to hear. Lesser amps from the same designer exhibit the same characteristics. Some may prefer the sound of a tube amp. I do… when im playing guitar. For my stereo i prefer ss. But thats me. Its the compromise i choose. It has the characteristics i like. If your current amp is clean and has plenty of power and i mean plenty it will make your wilsons sing. It isnt that wilsons are demanding because they really arent. But when they want power it should be there. Plain and simple. Dan makes great amps. If you like the sound its a great choice. I would not step back on the dac to get a dag if your amp is up to the challenge. In fact id try not to step back on the dac. Period. But amplification is important. Build on a solid base and go from there

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Thanks Anup,
right now, I’m using the standard Nagra tubes but bought already a pair of Gold Lion to replace them if they’re done :slight_smile:

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I do wish dCS would consider adding an analog board option similar to what MCS does:

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That seems attractive, at least initially. However, as I pointed out some time ago, dCS did indeed try such a thing. It was to be in a variant of the Elgar or Delius processor called “Greig”. James tells us that it reached prototype stage. Clearly dCS had reasons not to pursue the issue further and there the matter has remained.

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I actually have Sabrina X and the D’Agostino progression stereo amp latest edition. I run my Bartok direct, so no preamp. I take it all the way almost to zero so I would be concerned about power with the integrated. I do have a large dampened-room though.

That doesnt seem right. What do you have your output level set to? 2v. 6v?

6v. But to be fair it is only when I am really blasting a rock song. Average listening is around -28 db. I also have long high end Transparent cables which may be a factor…not sure.

When my pre was serviced i ran vivaldi direct to mono blocks to wilson xlf. I also have a heavily treated (engineered) room. The pre built into the dcs should be sufficient to provide all of the v you ever would need to press you back in your seat. You could check the recommended input voltage for your amp but without checking i suspect it would prefer lower. I run the recommended 2v on mine and have also tried 6v. 2v is quieter if you amp doesnt object

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Well…. What do you decide?

:point_down:

Thank you to all for your wise and helpful advise. I am grateful.

In the end I ordered a Dan D’Agostino integrated amp and started saving for a Rossini.

I did one test to hear which component contributes more to sound quality…… with my speakers… an integrated amp or a DAC? Both systems had the same cables.

My shootout: System 1: Wilson SabrinaX, $9k McIntosh integrated amp, and the Bartok (non Apex). System 2: Wilson SabrinaX, D’Agostino Progression integrated amp, and a lower quality DAC.

Result was System 2 sounded better. Now I just need a Rossini to have my target audio system.

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