I am using Bartok Apex with the internal renderer. For sound upgrade, does adding a Aurender N20 help?
maybe not the answer to your question but Bartok Apex + N20 (14k€?) are almost in the range of a Rossini- and that’s the way I would go.
The jump from Bartok to Rossini was really something!
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add on: I tried to improve my internal Rossini renderer with Aurender, Innuos and Melco - but the internal setup beats every contender so far. Less boxes, happy wife 
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Thks for the reply.
Also, would you recommend Rossini to connect directly to poweramp without going through preamp? (Which will require using HUGE dCS remote?)
Which preamp do you have?
Now a black/whithe statement from me: if you preamp costs less than 9000€ then skip it and connect Rossini direct to the poweramp. If your preamp is in the class of CH Precision, Nagra, dartzeel etc. then go with a preamp.
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I am using audio research ls28se as a preamp simply because I need 2 sets of preouts for my 4 monobolcks.
From your comment, if I go for Rossini/Vivaldi the best way seems to go for bigger 2 monoblocks without using a preamp.
Imho that’s the way I would go Simon. Rossini’s preamp section is very good, I could almost skip my Nagra preamp (16k€) for it (kept it because I use a Nagra PSU for this, a game changer here…).
I can only imagine that Vivaldi’s preamp section on another level but I never tested that.
I see…
Then with Rossini as dac/preamp, I wonder how I will control the volume. In Mosaic app or with seperate remote unit?
Both ways are possible, you could even use Roon for volume control.
If I would go that path, I would buy a real remote just to control volume without any digital device on (here iPad…). I guess the dCS remote is not cheap, it’s not included in Rossini but it could be included in Vivaldi package (some Vivaldi owner can confirm 
)
Less boxes, less noise, less space, less cables, more SQ…
If I had the chance to buy a Vivaldi + Upsampler, I would skip my Nagra pre for that and go!
I am not sure if I can be happy with the indelicate (I have thick fingers) digital touch volume control on the app. One reason I already bought the bulky dCS remote(700usd) when buying Bartok apex. With such a nice internal preamp section, I wish dCS to come up with a nice small remote like msb.
100% agreed, I find the digital control on an app not very feasible…
I think that this is unlikely at this stage of the game as the remote was designed for Vivaldi at a time when the dominant source of music was still CD. It’s size is predominantly because it needed to incorporate control of the transport. Its predecessor was small but could be difficult to use as everything was crammed into a small space.
It is likely that future dCS remotes will either be, or will resemble, the new Varese remote. So the era of any new IR remotes may be over as it is being replaced by Bluetooth which is incompatible with the older generation of units.Of course Varese Transport comes out in the new year so we will see what the control interface is then. Scroll down when you open the link:
this remote control looks fantastic a shame it’s out of range price wise…
It’s not really relevant in relation to this thread as far as replacing the existing remote is concerned as it is only compatible with Varese and cannot be substituted for the current IR “plank”. It is Bluetooth, not IR, and is also only compatible with Mosaic Actus, not the current incarnation for Vivaldi/Rossini/Bartok.
I anticipate that there may be something along these lines for the next generation of the V/R/B range though.
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Years ago I bought a Logitech HARMONY COMPANION and I use it not only to operate my dCS Vivaldi, but also to the TV, Apple TV and digital tuner. Logitech will stop selling them, but they will continue to support use for a long time and they are still available for purchase. in fact, I have a new one in stock if this one breaks. There are more universal and programmable ones for sale, so do a Google search. I have already sold my dCS remote…
Great news!! I will try to get one.
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I owned a bartok ( pre apex ) with a Rossini clock . I had both the Aurender n10 and n20 on a 2/3 month loan from my local dealer and I found both Aurenders to be underwhelming . The connection to the dCS dac was a pricey (ÂŁ1k plus ) usb cable . In fact a usb thumb drive into the dac sounded no different than using the aurenders. DCS recommends streaming via Ethernet and so I then took a punt on a melco n1h40 ( one 15th of the price of the Aurender n20) and the melco sounded so much better . I have since moved up the melco range ( n1zh60 and now the flagship n1s38) and the uplift in sound quality is very noticeable . I should point out that I have also moved to a Rossini apex dac . My advice is to change to a Rossini apex first and try a cheap second hand melco ( the n1zh can be found for less than ÂŁ1k). The only downside with melco is the user interface is horrendous but I use melco as a upnp device with mosaic providing the interface . Recently I tried the melco s100 switch and found the musical presentation to be clearer and voices even more realistic and have placed an order . Previously I was switch agnostic but really like what melco are doing and can hear real improvements to the sound .
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Happy wife, happy life …
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This weekends, I went to several audio stores to compare different streamers to the internal renderer of a Bartok apex, even including a second hand dCS network bridge.
To be short, it was clear that all the different streamer brands had their “own” sonic tones which was just sounds different, not better or worse.
Some had more bass and dynamic sounds whereas some had more analytical and cold sounds.
The internal renderer of Bartok apex was the former and the Aurender was the latter.
Now, the answer to my question was clear; go for your favorate “colours of the sound”.
I love the “less boxes, better sound” idea but my ears love the Aurender sound so I will go and get a Aurender !!
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