Bartok and PCM upsamplers and filters

Well, it is fair not to create expectations when evaluating this, and there is always the possibility that a filter setting does the exact opposite of what you would expect in your system.

But factually: PCM filters 1-4 are more or less the same at all samples rates, and progressively trade off alias suppression for transient speed. Hence, you get faster transients, and more alias distortion. To me that sounds like more punch and edge. And with minimum phase (Asymmetric) filters you get the fastest attack because there is no pre-ringing, but there is some small amount of phase shift. Again to me that sounds like a more forward and focused presentation with a fast attack, but I suppose it could always do the compete opposite for some totally random and mysterious reason.

Thank you very much for clarifying that. Was just concerned the Bartok filter was “stuck” for some reason and I was missing out on something amazing.

Changing filter on the Auralic Vega G2 did make a subtle but noticeable difference to midrange transparency particularly piano tones.

Good luck, these 51 year old cochleas can’t discriminate any differences at all. At least I can hear the difference crossfeed makes!

I seem to hear a difference between PCM filter 1 and 4, 5 and 6 now. Higher filter numbers seem to have little more liveliness about them. Quite subtle though. One of the biggest differences in how a live instrument sounds compared to a recording is in the transients. Now whether that is down to filters, sample rates or dynamic range compression of the transient peaks will depend on the recording. Any way to preserve those transients is to be welcomed.

Would anyone like to stick their necks out and describe what “(unwanted) Nyquist images” sound like?

If you haven’t seen it and FWIW here’s a post from dCS regarding filter choice

No idea what “(unwanted) Nyquist images” sound like :grin: but I don’t want them

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A Scandinavian avant-garde jazz band perhaps? Jazz isn’t my thing either. :flushed:

Nice link thank you.

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Thanks a lot. All of you teach me how to listen to the different filters. Especially @PAR and @IanB52. I am aware of the different listening experience you both heard. And riding on my own experience, I understand why people always said it is personal preference and depends on listening environment.

My experience similar to IanB52, however I would describe in another way. The audio I am listening are in 44.1KHz. So F5 is asymmetrical, no pre-ring but higher after ringing.

For me, the different between F1 to F4 is F1 is more subtle and F4 is playing more hard. Imagine a sax player, when he play hard, he will blow a short but strong and fast air into the instrument. You will hear the sound is soft at the very beginning but suddenly it will reach the max volume. You can feel the player is in high mood, the sound is vibrant. (That match most people say it is punch and faster). As the volume of that note come quicker to the max volume, it give me a feeling that it is closer and more focus. This is what I got from F4.

F1 give me a relatively opposite listening experience. It is more like the sax player try to play at night. He doesn’t play so hard, so the volume raises slowly and the max volume comes later. As it is softer, my brain imagine he is standing a bit away. Though it is subtle, that how my brain intercept the signal.

F5 is even faster and come closer. However the after-ring kill me. I got an inception of echo sound. Its like the sound need more time to disappear (due to longer after ring). Because my listening environment is small and closer to the speaker, I want the sound disappear quicker so that it won’t affect the note coming after. This is much easier to experience with kick drum in those jazz record.

F6 is even softer than F1, IMO. If I am listening in a larger room, I would prefer F4 or even F5 cause the room give the time to digest the punch and it is more vibrant. Now I am using F1. It give me a more comfortable feeling in a smaller room. Like listening in night time. My room can digest the sound more, make me feel clear and less chaos, especially in the bass.

So my conclusion is old school: it is a personal preference and depends on your listening environment and type of music.

My two cents sharing.

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