Out of a curiosity born from my own shift between sources over the past year …
When you are listening to music via your network connected dCS device what is the approximate balance between “Local” (CD transport / NAS etc.) or “Streaming” (Qobuz, TIDAL, Deezer etc.) sources?
100% Local / 0% Streaming
90% Local / 10% Streaming
75% Local / 25% Streaming
50% Local / 50% Streaming
25% Local / 75% Streaming
10% Local / 90% Streaming
0% Local / 100% Streaming
0voters
What do you think the balance will be one year from now (i.e. end 2020)?
There is no guarantee that any of the main streaming services providing CD or better resolution will be with us in a year. Nor is there any guarantee that any given title currently on their servers will still be licensed to them in a year’s time. So, if any title is of more than passing interest to me I buy it.
Most of what I play is music that is important to me, So, having been purchased, it is accordingly a local file. Thus I have voted 75% local both for now and the future.
Absolutely key!!! I wish DAC reviews always had a section on how the DAC performs with redbook - I’ve heard DACs that can do DSD512 that suck at redbook, so why would anyone care? Yes, upsampling is a thing… But still.
The problem with being a newer member of the forum is that one tends to resurrect old threads. I wish there was a 99% local option in the survey. When I read about music I don’t already own, I add it to a manual list of “Stuff to Try,” and then will check Tidal/Qobuz/Amazon/Apple and listen to it. (Amazon and Apple are the manual parts of this; as an on-demand, all-device service, Apple Music Is quite convenient for our all-Apple family, but it wreaks havoc on library management if one is not careful; so I just keep Apple Music away from the main library—it’s a shame; I remember when iTunes was a decent library manager). Sometimes I will keep listening to new stuff in T or Q for several hours. If I like it, I will add it to a Roon playlist I keep of “Stuff to Add.” I will then check to see if it is available for purchase in silver disc or uncompressed download. And then I buy it and add it to my library that way. I avoid adding streamed tracks directly to my library for the reasons others cite here: uncertainty of streaming future and disappearance of tracks I thought I owned. Unfortunately, this means I am paying more than twice for access to the same music, but I don’t see an obvious solution to that challenge.
I started streaming back in 2011 when I sold my Naim CD555 and moved on to a Linn Klimax DS. Back then many of the streaming services did not even exist. I am also off certain age (60) where I own most of my music (large collections of vinyl and silver discs). With that said over the past several years I have effectively stopped buying music and almost exclusively stream. My LP12 no longer sees much use (even with 7k records) and I even stream CD’s I actually own and have ripped to my HD. Streaming - especially with ROON - is simply too easy and convenient.
I do not agree with people desiring to own music simply because of their fear that the streaming services may no longer be around. Today the record labels overwhelmingly make most of their money from the streaming services. So no - streaming will not be going anywhere as the record labels want to maintain their revenue and profit stream. Second -if things start to disappear from the streaming services then in less than 24 hours I can go on Amazon and buy everything my heart desires.
I don’t own out of fear, though I think that is a valid factor. I own for for a reason I think is more positive: control.
Agreed, but that doesn’t mean Tidal and Qobuzz specifically will survive. And therein lies the risk.
Yes, but what a monumental PITA if it were to happen. If someone wrecks my car tomorrow, I can always replace it that same day. Doesn’t make the occurrence desirable. A more realistic outcome would be that something takes Tidal’s place, which I would expect to be likely, but again, sub-optimal.
This is where Qobuz Sublime users get the best of body worlds. For the added cost of the subscription, there is the incentive to purchase music at a discounted cost. I often see users feeling that the savings are more than the annual subscription itself.
Pete - that’s an interesting point. What makes you think that streaming services may disappear? You don’t think it’s more likely in fact that physical formats may disappear? I wonder if the current vinyl boom is actually just temporary, and it could lead to manufacturers focusing more on vinyl at the expense of CD because of the higher prices people will pay and the much higher margin per unit. The value of Vinyl sales is likely to exceed that of cds this year for the first time since 1986 albeit the volume winner is still CDs by about 2-1
So far the only streaming service that I am aware that has posted a profit is Spotify. Three or four years ago Stereophile published an interview with Klaus Heymann ( Naxos Records) who had to close his hi-res classical streaming service because the outgoing payments alone ( 70% of gross income ) could not make it economically viable. His analysis at that time was that the only way streaming services could ultimately survive was to have them bundled as part of the offering of a larger entity ( think Amazon, Apple). Only last month Qobuz need to raise its capitalisation from its existing shareholders by another 10m euro. We shall see but as I said previously there is no guarantee they will survive ( at least not in the current form).
I also now realise that specialist repertoire ( classical, jazz, world etc.) is going to face an existential problem. It is inevitable that the payment per stream has to be a micro-royalty ( I will not take up space explaining why but devising royalty tariffs for sound recording use was my job for many years). This is fine for major record companies and their hugely popular stars who individually can gain billions of streams for a single album in a year.
Unfortunately the aggregate number of streams for a classical or jazz album will not produce sufficient revenue under the existing financial model of streaming services for them to survive without record sales. Yet streaming services are decimating record sales (of all formats) as they are almost 100% substitutional.
I had a long conversation with the CEO of one of the most important independent classic labels and not only is the income insufficient but also the cashflow ( via distribution points during the year) from streaming does not allow the financing of a regular schedule of future releases.
As I have pointed out on other forums, the fact that CDs now outsell vinyl by value has little to do with any marked success of LPs but is because of the collapse of CD sales. If you are interested the 1st half year figures for the USA show a collapse of CD sales by 48% whereas the increase in vinyl sales is only 3% year on year.
So I will continue to purchase copies of the music that is important to me whilst I can.
Totally agree Pete.
To obtain recordings of classical repertoire I’m buying CDs (particularly used) while they are still affordable in anticipation of a future dearth. I’m sure many classic performances of lesser-known works will become collectors’ items so don’t publicise my strategy or the prices will start rising!
IMHO streaming services will definitely survive. I have a close friend who is an industry veteran and manager of a quite famous singer songwriter. Prior to that he worked for the majors for 20 years.
Today the record companies derive the majority of their revenue from the streaming services. Physical sales provide a negligible amount. If the streaming services have financial difficulties the record companies will simply buy them lock stock and barrel - imho.
The ones who are suffering are the artists. Somehow (as always) the record companies have figured out how to grab all of the streaming revenue leaving the artist with pennies. Things have reverted back to the way they were in the days of old - artists depending on touring and concerts to generate income.
Covid is definitely putting a crimp in their ability to earn these days.
I need to clarify. I have not said that streaming will not survive but that there is no guarantee that any given streaming service will. There is no guarantee that in 5 or 10 years time there will necessarily be a Tidal, Qobuz, Deezer etc. I am sure that there will be Amazon and Apple.
It is true that the record industry derives the majority of income from streaming. However this means the majors plus a few independents who happen to have important top 40 acts. It’s a winner takes all situation.
As I have tried to explain that because of the way streaming services work financially and the necessity of micro-royalties aggregated to produce huge revenue this only works for labels and artists who are hugely popular and attain billions of streams. Other labels and artists will earn relatively little. An interesting statistic was released by ( I think) Spotify some time ago. 80% of the tracks on their servers are never accessed ( and therefore create no payments).
This has not been exclusively caused by streaming and is a situation that has existed for all of this century so far. In fact this is only a return to normality. The idea of artists earning the majority of their income from record sales is really only something that applies to pop/rock music and was mainly the case for only a short period of approximately 25- 30 years from circa. 1970 - aside for a handful of artists like the Beatles who had vast sales in the 1960s. Of course the large record sales were promoted by tours anyway. So the tours were effectively underwritten by record sales. Without those sales all that really happened was that concert ticket prices escalated. It is the customer who really picked up the tab.
That is certainly the case. How the performing arts get out of this before the industry is permanently damaged is of huge concern.
Another interesting nugget to add to this thread is that I happen to know that all the streaming services (Inc Apple and Amazon) apparently have millions in escrow accounts ready to pay artists if only they knew who to pay it to. Apparently the metadata on many streamed recordings is poor and so many payments are not actually passed on to the writers, performers, etc.
In one way or another, just about every sensible company in the music industry makes some kind of provision in this respect if they can. Who owns what (and identifying exactly what is what) is a mind boggling task that the industry throws huge amounts of money at even if it hates spending on this kind of thing. It isn’t just about artists, it is also about composers and even session musicians in some territories. Imagine trying to find out who was the second trombone on the original recording of the theme song from Goldfinger 56 years later!! Of course the industry has had to adopt various work around policies over the years but the problem won’t go away.
In fact when I was in the music business I worked for several years on this attribution problem amongst other tasks. One thing I am sure of; there’s lots of money in it for lawyers.
I wish there was a 99% local option in the survey. When I read about music I don’t already own, I add it to a manual list of “Stuff to Try,” and then will check Tidal/Qobuz/Amazon/Apple and listen to it. (Amazon and Apple are the manual parts of this; as an on-demand, all-device service, Apple Music Is quite convenient for our all-Apple family, but it wreaks havoc on library management if one is not careful; so I just keep Apple Music away from the main library—it’s a shame; I remember when iTunes was a decent library manager). Sometimes I will keep listening to new stuff in T or Q for several hours. If I like it, I will add it to a Roon playlist I keep of “Stuff to Add.” I will then check to see if it is available for purchase in silver disc or uncompressed download. And then I buy it and add it to my library that way. I avoid adding streamed tracks directly to my library for the reasons others cite here: uncertainty of streaming future and disappearance of tracks I thought I owned. Unfortunately, this means I am paying more than twice for access to the same music, but I don’t see an obvious solution to that challenge.